00:00:05,830	It’s 4 o’clock on, uh, what day is it? Thursday, May 8th, 2025. Let’s see, appointed time and place of the Bismarck Renaissance zone authorities may meeting.

00:00:21,570	Yeah, I see that we have a quorum present, so we’ll call the meeting to order, and the first item of business would be to review and consider the minutes from the April 10th meeting. Any corrections or comments or changes, if not, move to approve a second Wapa say I I oppose same sign that motion carries. We’ll move on to the regular agenda, right? Whose phone is on, Joe.

00:00:42,800	Oh Um, the, uh, one item on the regular agenda, and we’ve got Isaac at the podium for the jousting lemur outdoor seating request at 5:14 East Main Avenue. Isaac, take it away. Thank you, Chair Christiansen and authority members our first regular, well, our only regular agenda items today does come to us from Ryan Eckroth of the jousting Lemur who is requesting approval of Downtown Design Review of seasonally

00:01:03,030	permanent outdoor seating for the jousting Lemur wine bar at 5:14 East Main Avenue. Uh, that is there within the Downtown zoning districts if anyone was curious.

00:01:26,570	And in this particular area, the sidewalk is about 11 or 12 ft wide, uh, with only that one light pole acting as a possible obstruction in the general vicinity and the project will consist as initially proposed of a fence or barrier delineated outdoor seating area as shown on the screens there, uh, in this simple site plan version submitted by the applicant. The proposed area is 19 ft wide, extending 4 ft out from the edge of the building.

00:01:47,300	And the height of the fence there, though not listed directly, it will be about 4 ft according to the applicant, and the proposed materials. Uh, once I get there in a second.

00:02:03,930	So let’s just uh overhead, uh, aerial of sort of how it might look, we’ll take this with a grain of salt because aerial imagery is not always the most precise, but there could be about 4 ft or so from that, uh, light pole to the edge of the seating and still having about 7 or so feet to the edge of the, the curb there. The proposed materials would be a resin fence and the would this would facilitate some uh what the applicant described as bistro tables.

00:02:27,370	So just 3 tables of 2 seats each total of 6 seats in this area, and as we know from our, uh, design review meeting last month, um, these, uh, Requests require a encroachment agreement with the city engineering department. The applicant is aware of this.

00:02:49,400	They have submitted for that already and that would be a contingent upon this approval here. What’s shown on the screen right now is actually something not submitted by the applicant. This comes to us from our design advisors just to kind of For discussion more so than anything, this is not necessarily a recommendation as opposed to what the applicant submitted, but just showing that if the light pole does

00:03:05,370	appear to be an issue, you know, they still have room to extend the seating area outward closer to the curb if needed and have some kind of um, you know, triangular edge there or, or uh making some extra room for that light pole.

00:03:21,930	So again, this is not necessarily a, a recommendation one way or another, but a point for discussion if needed. So long as we are able to maintain the the 48 inches of uninterrupted, uh, sidewalk space for pedestrian access. That’s both in the streetscape standards and is also referenced uh explicitly in the encroachment agreements.

00:03:45,900	So Uh, going back to what the applicant has uh proposed here, you know, staff do not find any particular uh issues with what is being proposed, um, and find that the proposed design would not adversely impact public health, safety, or general welfare, and that it is generally consistent with the Downtown Des design review guidelines, comprehensive plan, Bismarck Code of ordinances, and relevant state law.

00:04:04,670	Therefore, staff recommends approval of the proposed outdoor seating at 5:14 East Main Avenue with, of course, the standard condition that any major revision. to the design come back before the Downtown design review committee. Questions of staff. Nancy. Um, Isaac, is that if they were to angle.

00:04:31,830	The wall there, is that enough room for a wheelchair to get through? Like does that design meet the ADA requirements? So I’m not sure how far uh. So remember guyurson authority members.

00:04:56,470	I’m not sure how far out this particular rendering is from the uh from the wall there, but given that this is 5 ft from the curb, I would say that’s about 7 ft or so, uh, from the wall, so it would depend on the width of the tables, um, same thing for the uh original bistro seating design as shown here being about 4 ft wide out from The uh from the building edge, it would depend a little bit on the width of the seating area or the, I should say the

00:05:17,170	width of the tables themselves. I’m talking about between that late post and the edge there. Oh, so yeah, in this barrier they have to be ADA.

00:05:37,170	Yes, it would, it would have to meet ADA and it is, uh, in this particular case, so long as there is 4 ft, uh, distance from whatever the edge of the barrier is to that light pole, that would meet both minimum ADA requirements as well as other uh recommendations such as the public rights of way, um, accessibility guidelines. OK, other questions? I can just speak to the ADA, um, dimension is 32 inches.

00:06:00,470	For yeah, our, our local, yeah, um, for that, for, for that condition where it’s a pinch point, the minimum is 32, um, our local. Ordinance, I think says 48, so it’s, you know. More restrictive than what ADA is. OK. Good, Joe.

00:06:21,870	Just to confirm the the engineering department, have they, have they given you any feedback on what they’d rather see here? Is, is it like we, we talked about this last week, right? Is it from the curb or is it you need to have a certain amount of like 4 ft space from the light pole.

00:06:39,000	Have, have, has there been any more discussion there in, in this particular case, uh, authority member Fi chair Christiansen and authority members, that minimum of 48 inches would be to either uh Well, it would be to the light pole in this case. It’s 48 inches, if there is an obstruction which could be a light pole or a, uh, street parking pole or something like that, um, otherwise the requested minimum is 72 inches of of sidewalk length.

00:07:01,900	Other questions? Um, and I have one just as practicality, so the, the submitted plan shows a 4 ft wide space and you’re, you’re showing indicating 5 ft. I, I guess from a practical standpoint, how do you get a chair and a table in 4 ft is, I mean.

00:07:18,030	I guess that’s maybe that’s the proprietor’s problem, not ours, but Isaac, I, I can speak to that. So this drawing that’s up on the screen, this was my reaction in the similar way to the original proposal is, is there, is that really enough room to Use the space, um, and my, just my suggestion was, well, you could.

00:07:37,630	You know Capture a little bit more of this width of the sidewalk if you just champer that corner a little bit and meet the minimum. Um, clearance around that pole, uh, and then for the rest of the length of the space, you could come out a little bit more.

00:07:55,330	So this was just sort of to depict what I was suggesting might be an option for the applicants, so this is not, they’re not asking for this, this was my reaction to what they were asking for, wondering how, yeah, how useful is that 4 ft of space actually, um, so, uh, I created this drawing just to kind of illustrate to Isaac, just my feedback to.

00:08:14,970	the applicant you’re like, well, maybe you could ask for this, but I don’t think they are, so um. But Yeah OK. I guess if the customers have to stand, it’s not our problem. Yep, right, last question on here, just the design of the, the, the design document that’s in here.

00:08:33,830	You’re measuring from the, I mean those bases flare out quite a lot, uh, in what the materials that they’re looking at providing or using. If you look at the, the top section, I’m assuming that’s 4 ft from the, even the base section, right? I mean, that’s the whole purpose is the, the post, it would need to be, you know, 4 ft from the The barrier to the Any obstruction in this case. Yes.

00:08:53,830	But all these materials be removed in the fall for the winter then, or is that a question for the applicant or can you answer that? I, I can attempt to answer that because I do not believe the applicant is here today, um, but yes, they would need to be removed, uh, in the fall as all other

00:09:09,370	seasonally permanent outdoor seating would need to be. OK. Other questions or comments? Uh, what are your wishes? Move to approve is presented. Moved and seconded. Any further discussion? Hearing no call the rule on that 10, Steve Hawkin. The Guy in the hat. Authority member Greg Zenker. Yes. Uh, Bakke? Yes. Fink. Yes. Doll? Yes. Dvora? Yes. Guy? Yes.

00:09:41,470	Herzog? Yes. Chair Christiansen. Yes, that motion carries. Thanks everybody for that and thanks for your input on that, David. It’s as a said quietly earlier, we’re here to help, not to hinder hinder, so that’s very nice.

00:09:59,030	Uh, we’re gonna move on to other business and due to time constraints, we’re going to switch A and B around and move uh temporary sidewalk art discussion up to the first item. So authority member Christiansen and uh author authority members, um.

00:10:15,570	I’ll just give a little introduction, then we do have a guest who can speak in more detail about this as well, but this is something that uh planning staff was made aware of, uh, as well as engineering staff. There are some There we go. So there, there are some folks, both in the public health department and local artists who are interested in putting some uh temporary sidewalk art in the areas depicted on the screen, roughly in, in these areas, exact locations could be shifted around a bit, but this

00:10:38,200	would be in the general area of uh brick oven bakery for one, the northeast corner of the intersection of um North Fifth Street and East Broadway, and then on the north side of the library as well.

00:11:01,430	The tentative designs as submitted by the um artists that could be doing this would all be generally nature themed or or or similar outdoor type themes. The, the main reason that uh staff are bringing this to your attention today is just a little bit of clarification on something in the ordinance.

00:11:21,870	Planning staff and engineering staff do not have any particular issue with this, but there’s a clarification on sort of how public art is handled in the Downtown, public art is defined as any sort of mural or artwork, so long as it does not have any uh Like logo of a company or a brand name or things like that.

00:11:39,430	Um, however, and it does say that, you know, public art should be reviewed by the Downtown Design Review Committee, but all of the criteria for approval are assuming that the artwork is going on the side of a building and not necessarily on the sidewalk itself.

00:11:58,270	Um, so planning staff do not have uh any concerns with it being approved without a full formal design review, given that this is temporary and all of the criteria for a formal approval relate to buildings and not a sidewalk, but we did want to bring this to your attention uh for any feedback or thoughts and whether or not it should require a more formal review again planning staff are comfortable with, uh, not requiring that.

00:12:15,830	We do have a, I don’t know if the applicant is, is the right term in this case, but someone who is more heavily involved in in this project, then I am who could speak to some of the, the finer details of this as well. Uh, it is, uh, from my understanding, funded already, so they’re not necessarily um Looking for any other uh funding or opportunities like that.

00:12:33,630	Just wanted to bring this to your attention for any uh feedback. So does it require approval of this body? Does it require our approval? That is sort of the the question if if you are comfortable, you know, approving this without a full design review or if you would want it to come back any more full design review capacity.

00:12:52,000	This came to our attention after, you know, late enough in the, uh, review cycle that we were not able to provide a formal staff report and things like that, but, uh, planning staff, given what we have seen are comfortable, uh, you know, approving it with your consent uh without a more full and formal design review.

00:13:11,300	Do they have a uh timeline of when they would be installing this artwork and uh is there a plan for it might rain the next day, or just kind of keep it up a little bit and. Great questions, uh, Mr. Bakan. My name’s Molly McLean.

00:13:35,870	I’m a local artist, um, avid arts advocate and um, Uh, contractual arts administrator, um, and I’m working a little bit with the Bismarck Downtowners as of late, um, but I’m wearing my hat. I do contract work as as an arts administrator and, um, connector of local artists with um Bismarck Burley Public Health and have done that for the last couple of years, um, as to the timeline when this

00:13:54,770	would be, um, installed would be as soon as possible just because, um, our seasons as we know, winter just ended, right, because it’s supposed to be 90 and um, so as soon as um.

00:14:19,030	Artists would be able or as soon as uh As possible they’d love to begin working, and as for wear and tear, um, so this comes the funding is through, I believe it’s a blue zones grant, um, and the purpose of this is for movement and livability.

00:14:39,900	So you see these movement mazes will be what they are, um, so it holds up a little bit, or is there anything? Yeah, and there’s a couple of examples at the zoo, painter Nicole Gagner has done, um, a couple of movement mazes there. It holds up, uh, through the winter, these that was sort of a back and forth, um, with city planning is who gets to make that call when it looks bad. What um, what does that mean? Ah, our winters are harsh. I know.

00:15:01,330	of the, um, or this location, so south of here, I hear there’s some pretty darn good snow removal that happens with a bobcat and brush, and so that would probably clear away soon after the snow fell as far as, um, at the library, that’s north of, um, so that would be on Avenue B and, uh, the library grounds people said,

00:15:21,670	you know, that will probably wear throughout the winter, and we’re OK with that. There’s not a whole lot of traffic there, um, foot traffic in the winter.

00:15:43,000	Um, as far as the uh materials specifically it’s exterior, um, paint, and then we’re looking at uh a sealant that would be an exterior sealant looking at a couple of different ones. Parks uses an anti-graffiti coding, um, but there’s also we’ve used, um, marine sealant, so could keep it for a good amount of time, but, um, with public art, I think It The general consensus is, it is ephemeral.

00:16:04,970	It will wear and tear, and that’s just the nature of it hold up pretty well at the zoo, so I was just kind of curious what.. And and also., um, just to be clear at the zoo there have been a couple of rounds of funding where it’s been redone. So these, I don’t think would at this point they wouldn’t be redone annually.

00:16:23,500	It’s more just there’s funding now, we’ll see where it goes and. Maybe, um Hopefully they could be touched up. Are there other questions for Molly, Joe? Just maybe for staff, but it, um. Any plans at this point for curb and Gutter or or replacement of those sidewalks. I’m assuming they were picked out on purpose.

00:16:45,370	Sure, so authority member Fink, uh, chair and authority members, this has been the engineering department has been part of this discussion so far, and they have not raised any concerns about interfering with other work or operations uh in the proposed areas as far as I’m aware and then I’m sure this will be a part of your discussion as well, but Should the city need to remove this,

00:17:01,470	what kind of, what kind of cost are you looking at? Is it, I mean, I assume pretty minimal. That is. Yeah, it, it could be on the order of a power washing of some kinds, the exact cost of that, I am not able to say at this moment, power washing done. Thank you. Other questions? Yes, see.

00:17:27,430	There isn’t anything bad that could end up in the storm sewer, is there? I know we’re not supposed to like or paint on the storm sewer, but. Um So if it’s Coming off You know, in one big Swoop. Is that a bad thing? that. What I wouldn’t eat it. No.

00:17:55,230	Well, you know, I would guess it would be about the same as the paint wearing off on your house, right? Like you’re paint naturally just comes off your house and makes its way down the.

00:18:15,570	How many gallons of paint are we talking total, do you think? I mean, the stipend for paint is not gigantic, and I would assume it’s a few quarts from Lowe’serinard. Oh, OK. Well, it probably isn’t any worse than, you know, the, the scraping and the. Uh, the crosswalk markings and stuff during the weather, so that might be more industrial too. I don’t know the the chemical makeups by heart of paint. At this point I’m getting there.

00:18:38,430	Like I said, we’re here to help, not to hinder, but there’s always a fun recorder. And there was a um movement maze that was done at um Northern Plains Dance, um, so right by there, that was, um, right near the crosswalk from their parking lot to the crosswalk, and that did only last about a year, um, but

00:19:03,300	we’re looking at using a little bit different, um, paint, however, that Probably went somewhere. I’m sorry, I don’t have specifics of the applicant’s representative. And do the downtowners have an opinion on this, Kate? Um, oh, we’ve talked with Molly about it a little bit and, and there’s other city departments that have already approved it,

00:19:28,730	so I don’t think that we, you know, they’re gonna, we’re gonna catch anything they haven’t caught already, so we’re good with it, yeah. So, I guess the, the action would be to motion to approve. Motion to approve. Is there a second? Second.

00:19:44,700	You got that, Sandra? Steven Nancy, it’s been moved and seconded that we approved the uh. Temporary sidewalk art, uh, any further discussion, hearing none call the roll, please, Sandra. Authority member Bakken. Yes. I think. Yes. Dull. Yes.vo? Yes. Guy? Yes. Herzog? Yes. Zinker? Yes. And Chair Christians, that motion carries. Thank you. Thanks, Molly. Best of luck. And now we will return to Downtown streetlights.

00:20:10,500	Christiansen and authority members, this is sort of a, uh, an update on things as you remember from a few meetings ago there was talk of some downtown streetscape improvements in the area of South Fifth Street and Long Front Avenue, and there was talk of a broader discussion on the Downtown street lights that didn’t, we didn’t necessarily

00:20:29,030	have enough information at the time. to present anything for your consideration or discussion or feedback at this time, we do know a little more about some of uh potential ideas or options, so, uh, we have a representative of the engineering department here to speak a little more on that, and I will let her introduce

00:20:46,200	herself and go over what she has prepared. Sounds good. Welcome. Good afternoon. I’m Linda Oster, Assistant City Engineer from the engineering department upstairs. Um, here to talk again about, um, the Downtown pedestrian street lighting.

00:21:21,230	Um, just to give you an update, Public Works is currently working to update all the city street lighting to LEDs. They are very efficient lights. They cut down on our electric bill, and it’s been a goal for us to get them done for several years. Um, after this construction season, we will only have the Downtown street lights to finish. We were hoping to get them done this year. But we’ve ran into a problem.

00:21:42,300	The Downtown street lights are, uh, metal hali fixtures, which, you know, when those light fixtures or those lamps go out, they’re very hard to find. They’re very expensive. If we can even find them at all. So we’ve been retrofitting LEDs in them anyway.

00:22:05,670	Uh, there’s only a handful that we’ve done that with, but Because of that, um, you know, we know moving forward, we, we were attempting to maybe retrofit what we have downtown. Already We’re running into a problem because a lot of the fixtures are very old, they’re very fragile, um, the plastic globe, if you will, um, has been, um, um, It, it becomes very brittle in the

00:22:27,000	sunlight over the last 20 some years being out there and so, uh, some of the fixtures we can’t even find replacements for, we’re taping them together. This is not where we want to be. Um. So some of the challenges we are facing. Is Um, that it’s not just one fixture out there.

00:22:53,730	We have 4 different manufacturers. Um All the brackets that you see, the, the, the, um, uh, banner arms, they are all custom made. We have two different types of tenant configurations and 3 different kinds of poles, 3 different manufacturers of pulse, um.

00:23:23,070	It becomes very difficult when you’re looking at um upgrading it all, um, we know that we have to go in and replace the entire fixture at a minimum. The problem is some of the fixtures we have are have the the brackets as an integral part of that fixture. So you can’t just replace the fixture, you have to replace the bracket as well.

00:23:45,500	So as we’re looking at this and looking at the cost of doing that, um, uh. Let, let me go back to the cost, um, as we’re. Um We currently only have one manufacturer that is willing to make this fixture. Um, and, and you can see the, the type of fixture up in the corner. It’s just the pedestrian fixtures, it’s not the overhead lights.

00:24:09,000	Um And, and they use the, the integral, uh, bracket arm. Um If so, therefore if we replace them all, we’re replacing all the brackets, but we’ll have to revise or or um make some um concessions because not all the tenants that they fit onto the pole are exactly alike.

00:24:34,200	So as we’re looking at this, we’re, we’re thinking. You know This is probably an opportunity to ask the Downtown community, do we want to stay with this fixture. Um, the, the first project was done in ’98, so that’s 27.

00:24:57,670	28 years old by the time we get to this project, it’s time that we should ask this question, and if we want to stay with this fixture, we certainly can. But I think there’s an opportunity to to look at some options. And see if Um We can’t find a cost effective way to light our downtown and provide maybe something a little freshening up. Um So really what we’re asking.

00:25:23,630	We have over 200 fixtures downtown that need to be replaced. Um, and We also have those on 3rd Street that we put in last year that we’d we’d look at as part of this process as well. Um, we also have 30 new fixtures that we’re planning to install around uh long front. Uh, street between Front Avenue, sorry, between 3rd and 7th Street for 2026.

00:25:49,500	So this gives us the opportunity to look at this now. Linda, a quick question if I may. When you, when you say fixture, you’re referring just to what sits on top of the pulse, or are you talking the whole thing from the sidewalk, I’m talking the bracket arms and what sits on top of the poles poles.

00:26:06,430	Yeah poles, I think we have to look at it that way because we have such a conglomeration of or a mixture of. Um, you know, brackets versus versus the heads and some are integral, some are not. We, we have to look at a complete. A complete change. Thanks for clarifying.

00:26:28,300	You know, and that, that’s as we’re looking at the bracket arm as well. I think we should ask the question, are we comfortable with that, um, with that custom banner arm, and I bring that up because this becomes a very expensive component.

00:26:49,830	If that’s what we choose to do, that is completely fine, but, um, over the, the course of the years and the and um. Uh, manufacturers dropping out from supplying this for us. We have increasingly paid more and more to install new and even to replace them, um, the fixtures themselves are well over $5000 apiece. They’re, they’re significant, yes. Are there, are there. brackets that That are not custom, but we could use. There are.

00:27:17,530	And would that be a problem then with banners fitting on them? It shouldn’t they, they would be a standard type bracket arm that all you would have to worry about is the bottom and and currently we use uh a bracket arm that is banded to the bottom of the pole, but.

00:27:40,400	The uh bracket arm that is integral to that pole, um, component would, we wouldn’t have to worry about that anymore, uh, as far as having an upper bracket banded to the pole. It would really clean up what what is out there today.

00:28:01,830	We have a representative here at the table that installs y or banners familiar with climbing these questions or thoughts just so and, and, and Linda, when Linda says banner arm, she’s talking about the metal piece. Like that, we don’t attach any banners to that currently. That’s just like a. artistic piece right now there’s different hardware with fiberglass, arms that stick out, so there’s 2 on the bottom and 2 on the top.

00:28:17,800	So I assume what you’re saying is if you replace the metal piece now that you’d have kind of built in to on the top and then we would just do the bottom one, I think when these the the arms were initially designed. It was intended that there would be banners on or used for banners.

00:28:35,370	I, I think Not only are, are the banner arms custom, those banners would have been custom and probably very costly as well. Are the Downtowners OK with the bolt on. Bener or I mean aftermarket type deal, right? I think as long as they fit the pockets of the banner that should be fine. OK, sorry, sorry to interrupt you, continue please.

00:28:57,770	I, what I wanted to do is, um. share Um, some of the, the different options that we were looking at. This one here is very similar to what we have in some of our residential areas, we would get this in a dark bronze, all of these that I’m showing you, we would try to match the color

00:29:16,970	scheme that’s out there today, so they match with the polls, and they match with the 30 ft poles as well. Um, either one of these is, is, would be acceptable. You, you can, um, see up if I. You can see up here, here’s a a standard.

00:29:38,370	Uh T bracket arm that, that would be something I would be looking for. For our banners. When the, um, Over the course of 27 years, and of course things have changed. Manufacturers have dropped off. Is there a uniform standard within this section of industry now that uh pretty.

00:30:09,300	comfortable going forward that it’s gonna be around for a while, so we don’t wind up getting into this hodgepodge situation again. It, you know. I know things change over a long period of time, but. But is there a direction that I, you know, I think what I’d want to do is pick from a manufacturer that will be around. Um, that.

00:30:30,230	Has given us some stability in other areas of town. Um The, the ones that I am showing you today that like uh previously the um the Hall of Fame fixture, Hall of Fame has supplied for the city for well over. 25, 30 years. So they’ve been around and you’re going to be around. Yes, yes. And, and the. They value their relationship with us.

00:30:56,430	We, we have a lot of their polls and fixtures, so. Do you have other examples you want to shows? Isaac. So while he’s doing that, do. Well, these, these fixtures, that was kind of a Victorian, I would call that last one, kind of a Victorian look, but I would say.

00:31:13,470	Do they not sit on, you show it on a metal pole. They do, but they don’t have metal poles. We don’t have metal poles, our concrete poles have a tendon that they would slide onto. But the look is gonna be a little bit different than what you showed us is what I’m saying. Correct.

00:31:30,970	I think what we have is we, we have a metal tendon with the, the banner arms, and that would slide onto the pole. And the fixture on top of that. OK. David, do you want to jump in at any time, feel free. Sure, yeah, um, so I, Watched the the same presentation to the um.

00:31:58,270	A historic preservation, preservation board where so I, this won’t be, I’ve seen these options, so I, I think there was one of the options that I think we’ll be able to put up on screen here eventually that I felt.

00:32:18,100	Probably does the best of continuing the same style that we currently have, uh, I think it’s this one here that was something of an art deco type feel there’s, it has, it’s reminiscent of some of the other of of of the existing um features, yeah, um, of, of our current fixture, so I, I, I would encourage, yeah, um, that sort of approach where we’re it’s an evolution of what we currently have, right? Rather

00:32:41,170	than like a major departure um from what we currently have, um. And yeah, I think Jim, your point as to the, the, the polls being concrete instead of metal, you know, these visualizations, um, yeah, yeah, it’s, um, so I think from what I’ve understood is that the lower of the arms for the banner is going to

00:33:04,430	remain attached to the existing pole and we’re talking about a uh an arm for. Capturing the upper, upper part of that banner within the new fixture. Um, So those, I think ultimately what that’ll mean is the banners will actually wind up being a little bit higher than they currently are. I would assume.

00:33:28,470	They may at that, yeah, I think would neither here nor there, but not a bad thing certainly, um, yeah, so that, that’s my two cents, do we have an image of the current fixture? Yes, I’ll, I’ll get to that at the end. Um, this fixture here, um, at our HPC meeting, um.

00:33:51,430	Beth Nodland had provided us with some historic fixtures that we’ve had in the past, and I don’t have it on this slide presentation, but this one looks similar to one of them. It’s, it’s a little bit different shape, but the same. General, I think it had the same general feel. I wanted to point that out to you. This is our current fixture.

00:34:13,430	But do we have an actual photograph of the fixture on the, the tan pole. I’m sorry, I do not, because the picture that we have is the picture that we have now. It’s mostly globe, but is the metallic part of it, is it a dark anodized bronze.

00:34:30,970	I can’t remember, so it could run outside real quick, I suppose, and look, but Christiansen, I think if we go to the first item on the agenda, the poll that was that we were referencing that was in the way of the uh. Temporary permanent shows that. Oh, there you go. That’s correct. Yeah, there’s, there’s a photo. OK.

00:34:50,700	There it is right there in front of me right there, yeah. All right. Well, if everybody’s comfortable with it because the, the new ones that you’re showing us to replace that. Have quite a bit more dark anodized color to them, right? They do. Sitting on top of the, uh, Have it. Go ahead.

00:35:12,070	So, that last one you showed, That one, does that come in that brown or and it is too so that would be a better match to then just. That pitch black. I would agree. And this one looks like the light points down, right? So you have less like light pollution. Exactly, yes.

00:35:34,030	that’s a feature of all of the options, correct? Well, some of them looked like they were pretty open on the top. Yeah, can you rotate through again? This, this one we can actually get lenses in the side or no lenses and, and just a, a lens.

00:35:54,970	Or or the the lights up on top and with no lenses, it creates a very different, I think, feel, and that’s what kind of makes it very similar to the historic one that that I saw before, so it. The bugs like that. Yeah, but it’s still provides adequate lighting for pedestrians. When we go back through the other ones. Yeah. Is there a, Component of maintenance and upkeep, that’s one’s better than the other.

00:36:28,870	Um, Yes, and, and we’ve not dug into this to see which one is best. There’s some that have power doors and, and basically they components are all in one little door that we can pull out and, and change them out and.

00:36:49,230	Um, public works loves to work on those and we’d certainly look for that, that option on any of these. with the one that the, the example that’s up now is, is the, is it actually glass or is it like a plastic polycarbonate polycarbonate lens. OK. OK I find it very hard to get anything but. Uh, polycarbonate or an acrylic unless it’s a Hall of Fame.

00:37:12,700	Hall of Fame is kind of famous for their glass lenses, and um almost everything you can get with glass with them, it’s very hard to find glass in the other manufacturers. OK. Other questions and yeah, we, I think we interrupted your presentation and I apologize, but uh I appreciate the free flow of questions and answers and.

00:37:36,400	That Christiansen I’m just gonna ask Linda, are you looking for a decision today or just more a report and giving us an update. I am looking, uh, more as an update to to let you know what we’re looking at, uh, before I, I jumped down this.

00:37:54,400	Rabbit hole to look at cost estimates and how, how we could make this happen. I want to make certain that the downtown community is interested in doing this. I mean, if, if we like the fixture we have out there today, we will move ahead and, and, um, you know, um. Work on on getting the lights replaced to that if we want pardon you’ll just limp along.

00:38:17,300	So that’s a new fixtures, but we, we don’t have the opportunity to update them. So Linda, Timeline wise, limping along and. Scavenging through. How long before you run out of stuff to fix stuff with? As soon as eBay’s out of stuff. Exactly. Yeah. OK.

00:38:37,500	There are, there are some fixtures that it will be. Uh, well, like I said, some of them were, they’re taped together already. So, it’s not a question of if but when. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:55,730	Um, so the ask is to start looking at these now so that the new lights that are being put on front can match these, correct? Correct? And what’s the time frame for ordering those? Um, those will go to bid this fall. And, and so I’d like to get it on. That project before it goes out for bid. There is still an opportunity, uh, once they’ve gone to bid to change order them in, but we would rather not do that.

00:39:16,200	We’d like to get them. Ordered anyone at the table have heartburn with upgrading to LED and and picking a new fixture. I was going to add, I think in the long run it will actually save us money, you know, at some point, you just have to take the investment and And go with it, so yeah.

00:39:34,270	There may be some people at home that are watching that. Don’t approve of this because there’s a little bit of background to this, the city center partnership of which I was vice chair in 1995 or whatever. The chair who shall not be named.

00:39:52,400	Bruce Switty is the one that picked it out, and that’s, that’s why we’re having all these problems today, by the way, just so you know, so. Hopefully he’s watching. So So it’s all his 27 years old you know those 30, 30 years ago, yeah, so. Yes. Um, uh, back on a serious question though, in my anodized comment about putting a dark bronze. Cap on a light colored concrete pole.

00:40:15,800	Are they available in other shades or tones, uh, bronze-ish or. In tan or I don’t. Not all. Black and dark bronze are the two Stan colors. And you know, knowing that we have dark dark bronze for a thirty-foot poles. I thought it was kind of nice to match those.

00:40:39,930	Well, maybe they’re high enough that we, you know, again, David, uh, From an architectural or design point of view, do you see, I mean, does anybody even gonna look up there and see it’s a dark bronze cap on this lighter colored pole. Should we, should we look, look at one, look at a. Well, the polls, the polls down at the ground are also the dark bronze.

00:40:58,500	Well, not these polls, they’re concrete. Not those, but the 30 footers are. They’re, they’re a metal pole. Right. But these aren’t going on those on those. I would steer, yeah, I would steer. Um Uh, you guys towards the dark bronze versus the black, certainly. um What about something lighter than bronze.

00:41:29,430	If it’s, I that question maybe we might not have enough information, uh, before, you know, Lynn has a chance to do a little bit more research. I think you could give her direction to Um, see if she can come up with options that are a little bit lighter.

00:41:46,670	It probably wouldn’t hurt to see an option or two that has has options that are. In the lighter range, um, I think at this point it’s Kind of, she’s looking for feedback, I think, on which, which, which direction to head here. I, I think I have 5 options here.

00:42:03,100	Which ones do you want me to look at? If you want me to look at 5, we’re we’re not gonna make our deadline. The cough I haven’t looked at, looked at cost at this point, but that’s something we would want to look and compare as well. Yes, I recommend the, the, the last one, so I’ll just say that to move the conversation.

00:42:24,470	Great, and, uh, authority members, I would, I would stray away from custom colors, because custom colors are expensive to start with. And then whenever you need to replace them, the custom color doesn’t match the custom color that you ordered the years before because of the UV stuff, so, um, I would recommend that we stay with something that’s uniform and can get ordered quickly because they’re gonna, they’re gonna deteriorate

00:42:42,770	anyways, they’re gonna have to be replaced. OK. Fair enough. So you want us to narrow the 5 down to 2 or 3. 12, let’s say 1 or 2. I, I think. I think we can do 1 or 2. It’s hard to make that decision without having price points on them. How about we.

00:43:08,400	Yeah Put your want list. That’s right, we don’t have a budget. Yeah, Mr. Chair, if I’m not mistaken, our, our purview in this board is design, right? So pick a design that you like. I’ve heard this one that we’re looking at now is acceptable. uh, David mentioned, uh, a previous one.

00:43:24,770	I would limit it, suggest you limit it to those two and move forward with that right there. And That oops, sorry, that one. Yeah, I like this one. Those two if you want to price those and.

00:43:45,130	I’ll price them and I’ll, I’ll, I’ll see what I can find as far as um the maintenance and, and the future maintenance of they’re both from Sternberg, very good company. They’ve been around a long time. We currently don’t have fixtures with them, but I’ve worked with them when I was with another company and, and they’re, they’re very well known and, and very reputable just like Hall of Flame Hall of Fame.

00:44:02,370	Do you want to bring this back to our next meeting on June 12th, or is that getting too far down the road for you. I will. We could do this by email too. But Let me gather the information and I will work through Isaac to to get on, on, uh, future agenda. OK for continuity’s sake. At the point the 30 ft fixtures. Need to be replaced at some point.

00:44:30,430	Is there continuity between this and those then and if Sternberg have something similar to that too, or? The fixture we have been specifying for that we have one for it and, and I think it looks very similar to this, um, uh. And, and we’ve been able to maintain them very well through through the fixture that we have. So. OK.

00:44:55,170	Other questions? If not, I think you, you have a consensus. OK. Thank you, Linda, for your time and for doing that. Absolutely. Thank you for your time. All right. Um, I see on the other business agenda would be the Renaissance zone boundary information Isaac. Thank you, uh, Chair Christiansen and authority members.

00:45:15,300	I’ll just add one more thing onto this discussion as I swap over to the other presentation is that, uh, in the Downtown streetscape standards right now, it does often call out the bronze color in that document and in the specification sheets, it does list the current fixture and you know, the exact design specifications.

00:45:34,100	So whatever is chosen, you know, we will have to update those documents as needed, but that’s something that, you know, staff can, can take on and bring to you if relevant, but just wanted to make that note while I go back to the other presentation. Yes OK, so, uh, Cha Christiansen and authority members with our last other business item here.

00:46:06,500	This is a continuation of something that staff brought briefly to your attention last month. So as a reminder to the authority and for the folks at home. The reason that staff were inquiring what the thoughts of the authority were regarding the current Renaissance zone, uh, program boundary was due to some inquiries that staff have received from potential applicants to the program we

00:46:26,000	have without, you know, getting into any particular possible projects, we have received. What I would say is for serious inquiries of those 41 is clearly in the program boundary, one is outside of the program boundary and 2 are in blocks that have previously been closed, so we’re in the program at one point but are now

00:46:46,200	currently not. So for the sake of discussion and for the sake of not showing any favoritism, staff wanted some direction to see if the authority was open to the idea of uh Adding in another block somewhere and if yes, what that might be.

00:47:06,470	So what staff did in the uh in between is we took the 5 sort of main criteria that the development plan calls out for um analyzing when looking at whether or not to discuss bringing in blocks.

00:47:26,270	Those were the age of structures, the condition of structures, the building to land value ratio, the rate of change of the building value according to the assessing department and then a 5th 1 that staff added in was just um distance to the current boundary of the zone, so that way if a block was further away, you know, in order to maintain a contiguous boundary, we would have to possibly add in multiple blocks to get to that one.

00:47:41,670	staff, you know, normalized each of those 5 categories to be on a 0 to 1 scale, 1 being, hey, this place is great and probably does not need to utilize any sort of incentive program to redevelop and, you know, a 0 meaning, you know, this is in.

00:48:01,300	Most likely in more need of utilizing a program of some kind if they wanted to develop or redevelop there. So each of these blocks was given a score based off of those categories from 0 to 55 being the best, 0 meaning the most need, and it’s ranked as shown here.

00:48:20,500	I will note a couple of caveats that I also pointed out in the memo that was included in the um agenda packets for you all is that. Staff did exclude some blocks from this analysis if they were publicly owned, whether that be the city or the county or or parks, um, but there are some others in here, such as, um, you know, you can see the, the numbers on the blocks there is the rank one meaning, you know,

00:48:40,870	the most need potentially and in this case, you know, 95 or whatever it is, is the least need based off of the analysis. So of the top 5, each of them has some form of of tax exempt uh structure on the or tax exempt property there.

00:49:00,570	So I do want to be very transparent about that. So, you know, take blocks 12, and 3, for example, those are either uh parking lots or tax exempt in some way so that category of building to land value ratio is 0 because there is no taxable value there in this case or the rate of change is 0 because there was

00:49:18,170	no change, for example. So just wanted to bring this as sort of a general overview of sort of if the authority was interested in discussing this further.

00:49:37,430	This is a, a starting point, uh, for example, but if the authority is not interested in discussing this further, that is also a direction that staff will, you know, we can, we can halt the discussion here, but wanted to bring this to your attention after staff have taken a little more time to dig into this, but we can also dig into it more, uh, at your discretion. OK, so this is just an update. This is an update at this point, yes.

00:49:52,830	Questions of, of, uh, Isaac. Questions or comments or recommendations one last thing I will add, which I, I, I should have said as I was going through my spiel there is that, uh, just as a reminder, if you wanted to discuss uh adding in more blocks. We are currently at 41.

00:50:13,170	5 blocks based off of our population we could have up to 47 blocks, so there’s some wiggle room of adding in, you know, up to 5.5 more blocks, if that was the direction of the authority, just adding that for context as well. comments, questions? Anybody? Joe.

00:50:33,670	I mean I need to answer, but the purpose of this is to be able to show the public where we, where we be willing to go with a project like we had in the previous plan, right? Like that’s the whole purpose of this.

00:50:51,800	So if there’s a, if there’s a project that approaches and says, hey, we’ve got a project we’re within this, uh, area or within a block that you’re willing to go to, like, You’re expecting someone to ask at some point is the whole purpose of this, right? Yes, authority members think that that is correct and chair Chris and authority members again without going into details since, you know, public information is only public when we get applications and things like that, you know,

00:51:09,800	the inquiry that is outside of the block of the current boundary, but you know, could be a part of it. It is in one of these blocks, but I will not say which one at this time.

00:51:30,000	And Isaac just for information once a block’s been closed, it cannot be reopened, correct? Yes, as of right now, that is correct you said one of the inquiries was on two of them were on closed blocks. Yes, uh, we did reach out to our contacts at the state to see if there was any. Previous discussion about whether or not you know blocks could come back in.

00:51:51,430	They said that, you know, others have raised that discussion point before, but there is no current plans of changing the state law to allow previously closed blocks to come back in. Thank you Uh, can you tell us what buildings or properties exist on blocks 12, and 3 right today.

00:52:13,470	Currently, what is shown there is blocks 1 and 2, Chair Christiansen authority members, that is primarily a parking lot, uh, for, I believe, uh, CHI, um, on the southeast corner of, of Block 2 there is a structure there. It is tax exempt, but there is a structure, block 3 is also primarily medical buildings um and some parking lots.

00:52:34,170	The reason we kept these in even though they are uh in some cases tax exempt, either part of the block where all of the block is. In theory, you know, those entities could sell, uh, those, those properties and or develop them in some way that they would no longer be tax exempt.

00:52:49,170	So in theory, they could, uh, utilize the program, but whether or not, you know, they would ever do that themselves or sell their property so someone else could, you know, we, we certainly cannot speculate with that. So from the least of the blocks to The most attractive to get a bang for our buck. What would be the, the ones that are It’s hard to read the dark blue, the black numbers on the dark blue.

00:53:08,300	Right above the, the, yes, the lower numbers would be the, the more likely to need uh based off of the analysis. Thank you. OK. One last question, if I could.

00:53:27,600	This, does, does this itself, the identification of where we’d be willing to go constitute a change to the plan which needs to go to all the other entities. Uh For member Fink, chair and authority members, yes, if, if there were a formal, you know, request to change the boundary of the program that would constitute a change to the development plan which would eventually go back to all of the uh representative boards. I’m sorry just to clarify, just this.

00:53:47,330	We’re not being asked today to, to, to do anything other than identify where we’d be, where we would be willing to go to. Yes, so, uh, if I remember, if there were a formal request to uh go to other blocks there would need to be a public hearing and things like that.

00:54:03,530	So that is not what we are requesting right now. We’re just asking for, you know, further direction of, you know, do we want to keep talking about this. Oh, chime in quickly here.

00:54:26,230	Yeah, so this looks like it’s really useful exercise for the staff to be able to give feedback on an app about how likely is it that this could be extended to assuming the criteria they use to create this map is something you feel is in line with the priorities of the program. So I think the most useful feedback that Isaac could get right now is, you know, those 5 categories and the, the methodology of it.

00:54:46,570	how accurate is that to kind of what you guys would like feel comfortable with, you know, as the basis for extending the boundary one way or another, so I think that probably is the most useful feedback you could get at the moment, so yeah, just go with your justification for the scoring criteria seemed right on.

00:55:01,500	I mean you used to plant itself, you used the identify there was one additional one I think was property is it taxation distance to the distance from the current zone. So I think that’s a that’s another relevant point to add. I don’t see any flaw in what you Do to be able to help identify which blocks I think they to be complimented this approach, I agree.

00:55:20,170	So, and we could certainly wait things differently if, if the board felt like that was relevant, for example, there were some blocks that the taxable value went down, but assessing still believed the condition of the structures was, you know, not.

00:55:37,400	Horrible, but you know, about average or so, but the taxable value did go down, so there was a negative number in that category, but still had a a 0 to 5 value somewhere in that range. So we treated each category as being equal if the authority had preference of trying to wait things differently or look at things differently, we can certainly do that and continue this exercise, but yes, that is what

00:55:55,830	we have done up to this point. I don’t know that we want to get into the weeds. I think you’ve done a good job of that. Um, I think the question, I mean historically, as you know, Maybe you don’t because it predated you, but we don’t chase projects.

00:56:12,430	Right, so So we appreciate you not telling us anything about potential projects, but do we want staff to continue this exercise? Have they gone far enough? Do we want to start talking about Potential blocks To add, Kirsten. Can I, uh, you know, again, you don’t have to say how or who or whatever, but how about how many people have just expressed interest. In general.

00:56:30,600	If we, in general terms, are we talking one or are we talking 10? Well, so I remember Dvorak, uh, chaired Christian Senate Authority members in terms of the actual people sort of per project who is interested, I suppose I can’t necessarily.

00:56:52,070	Know for sure, but as I mentioned, there are, there have been 4 projects in in the recent past that have inquired about using the program in one way, shape or form. Can you tell us the nature, I mean, is it housing? Is it with Isaac here. This isn’t fair. Well, so Christianity members, uh, according to the development plan, it could be either.

00:57:14,430	It could be residential, it could be commercial, could be mixed use um Correct. Yes, it would have to be something that, you know, advances the, the goals and objectives of the development plan sults Now, we got, OK, well, what, what direction would you like to give staff, I guess, um.

00:57:35,770	You know, we should probably continue this discussion at the next meeting and actually get down into the nitty gritty of blocks if we’re going to go. You know, instruct them I personally am open to to be able to utilize the Renaissance zone as we need to. Again, I’ll say we need to be strategic on what blocks we add, but I think we have a reserve of blocks that’s there for.

00:57:50,730	This particular purpose is identify where we’d be willing to go, so we’re not chasing projects, we’re saying if you have something that is not currently within the zone, we’d be willing to extend out to it, um, and I think you’ve done a great job being able to at least identify those to someone looking at a project somewhere.

00:58:09,900	Do we want to take it to the next step and say these blocks are way below where they can be, and let’s bring them into the zone and see what happens. Is your Christian and I would. Sorry, go ahead.

00:58:27,500	Comm, I would, I would just remind us that we, we did that with the Machine District. Um, everybody was interested, went through the process, got it all done, and we have had 0 projects so far through that. So just bringing them on and hoping somebody does it, even though his staff did and and Daniel at that time did it and he did a great job.

00:58:46,330	Um There were, there’s interest, but when it, when it was implemented, there’s been zero interest, so. I would, I would like to see a little bit more detail as to what we’re going to do and which blocks we’re specifically talking about, um. And to why, you know, does it, does it meet the, the, the standard. I was the late representative.

00:59:07,200	Uh, Kaiser always said it was for Blythe. So does it truly meet that standard, and that’s a kind of hang my hat on that, so to speak. OK. Well, let’s continue it to the next meeting, right? I mean, let’s keep, keep it alive. Thank you, Isaac, and Daniel. For all your work on this.

00:59:25,130	Um, other business for the good of the order? Anybody have anything today? Hearing and seeing none. Um If there’s, if there’s no objection, we stand Adjourned until June 12th.