00:00:42,700	Dennis Agnew. He was going to be online. We have a quorum. All right. Next item on the agenda is the approval of the February. I’m sorry, January 20th six minutes. Um, Commissioner Strobel. I have some change, if you don’t mind. January 14th. I have some changes that I would.

00:01:09,600	I have some changes that I would like to suggest to the minutes. Um, there’s this kind of some name word salad going on here. So we’re we’re it says Commissioner Jarrett. It should be Bitner nominated Dale Patrick. And it says seconded by Commissioner Stiefel. That should be Connolly.

00:01:34,100	And then where it says Commissioner Bittner nominated Commissioner Agnew, that should say Commissioner Jarrett. And it was seconded by stressful. And then. Um. Yeah. So Rish was the second on the vice chair. Right? Commissioner Risch. Could you. And then further down on the page, um, John, it’s not John, it’s Robert. Robert Fields. And. Oh, it’s just it’s not plural. There’s just one of them. Okay.

00:02:12,400	Any other corrections or additions to the minutes? Marlene, did you get all those? No, but I was going to ask the if I could borrow her notes. Okay. Any further comments? Vice Commissioner Patrick, I just wanted to say I, I am online, I just wasn’t a panelist when you took roll call. So mark me. Mark me present.

00:02:34,300	All right. Welcome. Okay. Um, we have a motion to approve the changes and the minutes as as a changed, amended. I’ll move. We approve. The minutes with the suggested changes. Second. Seconded by Mr. Commissioner Jarrett. Uh, all in favor, say aye. Aye. Opposed? Okay, miss. Those are approved.

00:03:01,000	We move into the, uh, second item on our agenda, which is, uh, the public comments restricted to Bertie County residents and landowners. Does anybody want to make a comment in front of the the commission? Anybody want to approach the lectern and make any comments? I tell them this isn’t the public hearing.

00:03:22,900	Please sign your name. And, uh, and tell us and tell us your name when you approach the lectern. My name is Tammy Anderson. Would you sign in also? I have testified or given my input, I guess, at past full commission meetings.

00:03:51,200	So I’m here today because of what I saw. The discussion included was at the last meeting, I’m not really sure what’s changed since then. Um, so I guess I’ll just give my input based on that meeting. She’s commenting on the public hearing. I think she has. What’s that? I think this is for a public. Well, I don’t know. Is he.

00:04:10,930	Is this is this for a public hearing? Well, whatever was I saw. Are you. This is just for general comments. Okay. So if you’re here to speak on a public. Hearing. You would speak during the public hearing. Yeah. Oh, no, I’m just. Are you not going over zoning stuff? Okay. That’s a hearing. And it’s.

00:04:33,900	So that’s not tonight. Yes. It’s tonight. Okay. Later. So I should wait. Yes. Okay. Well, you said public comment, so what do I know? Thank you. I’ll come back. Yeah. Anybody else want to make any comments. Any other comments? Last call.

00:04:53,900	Anybody else want to approach electric and make comments about. All right. Uh, we’ll move on then to uh, consent agenda. Um, Mitch, uh, the All-American subdivision. Okay. Yeah. There’s four items on the consent agenda. Two of them, the 4.2 and 4.3 are lot combinations. The 4.1 and 4.5 are actual plat separate plats.

00:05:25,730	So you can consent to a approval for that or for the public hearing. Or we can go through each one. Or do you want to pull one or approve three. It doesn’t matter. They’re they’re fairly simple straightforward plats. So okay. What does the commission wish to do. Well probably make sense just to move all four of them and have a public hearing and discuss it.

00:05:43,000	Then you want to make that a motion? I’ll make that a motion. We approve them all for a public hearing. Second. Seconded by Commissioner Munson, any further discussion? I was just going to say. No further discussion. All in favor, say aye. Aye aye. Okay. I’m opposed. Okay.

00:06:01,530	They’ll be moved on to the, uh, public hearing. Uh, our next meeting. Yeah. Item.5.1 is public hearing for Puma Ranch subdivision. Uh, this is a public hearing for Patrick and Gail Lingenfelter.

00:06:23,400	They want to, uh, separate or create a single lot of five acre subdivision out of the property that contains 40 acres. The location of the property is at 8305 Pleasant View Road. The map site map is in your packet. It is located in, um, uh. Oh, where did I have the. Oh, the, uh, the township Apple Creek. Sorry. Yeah. So they they are okay with it.

00:06:57,470	Um, they’re going to keep it, uh, zoned AG as the rest of it is, even though it’s five acres. But that’s fine. Um, they requested to apply for a stormwater management plan and a waiver plan, uh, a paving waiver. Um, regulation. The applications fulfilled the requirements.

00:07:16,900	Article 33, the zoning for property is AG, and that is not up to this board. It’s Apple Creek jurisdiction for the zoning. They applied for a stormwater management waiver or paving waiver. We sent all for all out to reviewing entities. Um, the subdivision meets the article 33.

00:07:38,670	So the request is to approve the final plat for or recommend approval to the county commission for the final plat. I stand for any questions. Um, any questions from. Mister, I have a question. Has you said the stormwater management plan waiver has been applied for? Yeah, they applied for it and it’ll be fine. It’s there’s not been approved yet.

00:08:06,370	It has not been approved. But that would it could be part of your recommendation for approval is to have all conditions met before the county commission approves. Any further questions from any of the commissioners? I have a question, Mr. Chairman. Okay. Commissioners.

00:08:29,400	Um, I see the staff had concerns of the floodplains and adjoining floodway on the west side of the property. Wrong. Wrong. Flat. Sorry, that’s the first one. All American. Oh, okay. All right. This has no floodplains on the property. There’s no further questions from Mitch. We’ll open the public hearing.

00:08:53,930	Anybody that wants to speak on the, uh, corner subdivision or ranch? Final subdivision? Um, approach the lectern and sign the, sheet and state your name. Anybody wants to come up and speak to the public hearing on the corner subdivision. Second call, third call. Anybody want to step forward and speak? Okay, we’ll close the public hearing.

00:09:34,470	Um, and, uh, at this point, uh, any discussion from the commission? Any discussion? Commissioner Risch? Mr. chairman, staff findings said the petitioner will apply for a stormwater waiver, and a paving waiver. Should we make that a condition of our approval that they actually get those waivers? Good. Because that’s what we. Should do. And that would be part of the motion.

00:09:55,470	If there was a motion to move this forward to the county commission. Mr. chair, I’d move to approve the plat with conditions, uh, as long as the conditions are met and send a do pass recommendation to the county commission. We have a second order from Mr. Conley. Mr.

00:10:15,230	Conley, any further discussion? Any further discussion? Final call. Any further discussion? All right, uh, let’s move to a vote roll call. Vote. Mala. I just want to make sure I got the motion right. Is it, um, approved with conditions. The paving. Waiver and the stormwater management waiver. As long as those are met. Okay.

00:10:43,330	All right. Yes. Vote means you approve. Um, no vote means you do not. Chairman Agnew. Yes, Commissioner. Stifle. Yes, Commissioner. Bittner. Yes, Commissioner. Small. Yes, Commissioner. Conley. Yes, Commissioner. Ridge. Yes, Commissioner. Jarrett. Yes, Commissioner. Patrick. Yes. Commissioner. Munson. Yes. All approved. Okay. That motion passed.

00:11:20,330	Uh, we’ll move on to the next item on our agenda, which is the review of some of the staff reports for related to some of the zoning comparisons. So, Mitch. Yeah. Item item 5.2 in your, uh, packets on page 20 is an introduction to the staff reports.

00:11:45,230	Um, I think we overloaded you guys last, last month with, uh, differing ordinances. So I’m going to I’m broke it down to we’re going to start with the residential districts, floodplain and agriculture. Mitch, may I, may I ask? Yes, the commissioner chair, real quick. Um, for just for clarification. So I understand, um, was this ever on the consent agenda? No.

00:12:05,500	The zoning? No. We went from we continued this public hearing from last. Month, but before because. I don’t don’t in a normal process, everything goes on to consider an agenda. And then it goes to a public hearing. No. Okay.

00:12:24,800	The idea is, uh, we we, um, on March 1st, the city of Bismarck will be transitioning for 4529 parcels to our jurisdiction. Um, this is this area contains 95% of the population, approximately 12 to 14,000 people. We don’t really know exactly how many people are in that in that area, but it’s somewhere between 12 and 14,000 because of the jurisdictional transfer.

00:12:50,930	Consideration for this area is to air this area only is to consider superseding the the Bismarck Zoning Ordinance. There was no ordinance for the eight districts listed below, and or, or we could lead the city of Bismarck ordinances in the place. We can adopt those as is, or we can do nothing. Go ahead.

00:13:17,600	So can we add a number three on there? You can call it do Nothing. Or we could call it move the transition parcels under the current Burley County zoning ordinances and grandfathered in existing properties that may be out of compliance because of the previous city jurisdiction. Or just call it nothing.

00:13:43,770	That might be a kind of a zoning, a very big question for zoning actually out to have over 4500 properties grandfathered in. We would have to keep track of each one of these properties and anything in the future that’s like.

00:14:07,330	, so when we, uh, just in a further question, if I can, um, I was Burley County Planning and Zoning was established in 1972, right? Yep. And there was two current, two of the current commissioners that are here tonight were actually part of that original commission. Am I correct in. That 24. In 2014. 2014 and 2014. 1972, though. Was that when the original planning of Burley County Planning Department was established.

00:14:31,300	No. Burley County Planning and Zoning was established sometime later. In 2014, right. Previous years was always the city of Bismarck was under mutual agreement to do the county planning and zoning. Okay. And so I’m just trying to. Write and. educate myself.

00:14:53,830	The the current zoning ordinances for the city and the county are remarkably similar because of that. Okay. So there’s really not much of a difference. Okay. So when we originally merged, when Burley County Planning and Zoning. Went on their own away from the city, how were the properties handled at that point? Did we just move the properties into Burley County? Burley County? And what you’re asking me? Let me clarify that.

00:15:21,530	Um, that’s real clear. The, um, the the properties that we’re talking about have been under the city jurisdiction since 1970s. 77. 77, 79, somewhere in there. So when we created the Burley County Planning and Zoning, it had nothing to do with that because that was inside the Oeta.

00:15:47,770	So the Oeta has been the city’s zoning since 77. So now the question is, are we going to move the the zoning ordinances from the city into the counties or not? And I would suggest probably not. Um, simply because there’s no problem. We’re adding a lot of other things.

00:16:10,830	That’s just my opinion that, um, simply aren’t going to change anything. Um, the, uh, the notion of grandfathering or anything else is almost a moot point. I think everybody is pretty comfortable with the way things are, whether it’s under the city or the county in general. You know, nobody’s in here saying that.

00:16:32,530	Well, we gotta have, um, instead of rural residential or rural single family that we got to have, you know, one, two, three, four, five, six other rural residential type of things. It seems ridiculous.

00:16:55,030	And so I don’t know if that cleared it up for you, but the the change over to Burley County planning and Zoning had to do with areas outside of the Oeta at the time. So now we’re moving. That line is moving back under a lot of these properties, and that’s why we’re having the conversation. Okay. Good. Thank you. Okay. Any other comments or questions? Yeah. Vice chair if I might. Yes.

00:17:19,470	Uh, Mitch is is it, uh, correct in uh, in saying that we do have a timeline on this. It’s March. We need to have something in place if we’re going to put something in place by March 1st.

00:17:36,070	Is that correct? Well, at this point, no, that’d be it’s it would be an a possibility. It’s too many to me. Uh, too many things that need to be public hearing and that they have to wait 30 days to be posted on site for 30 days if anybody wants to appeal them. And if there’s an appeal process that goes through the county commission. So at this point, no.

00:17:52,000	Go ahead. As of March 1st, it would be, uh, there would be the transition. And that would mean that those properties are going to function under what is currently in the in the county ordinance, correct. That’s what we’re trying to determine. But there would be a gap where that’s going to happen anyway.

00:18:16,630	Well, unless we follow what they have existing. Um, and adopt that just for this area only in the Oeta, only then we follow that until we come up with something new. Okay. Thanks. So let’s. See, Commissioner.

00:18:39,530	See, I’m I’m kind of looking forward to what the citizens have to say about this. You know, is really my goal. Um, and it seems like we’re trying to make things more complex than they need to be because we don’t have, you know, we don’t have heavy commercial.

00:19:00,330	We don’t have we have very little, um, industrial that’s under the county, like, say, out at, uh, monarch. And, you know, we’ve got some industrial, but other than that, it’s just basically land, you know, and I haven’t heard of any plans for additional commercial or industrial that would cause us any concern outside of our zoning ordinances, because we already have ordinances that allowed for those uses as needed.

00:19:20,630	Are you suggesting that we should narrow this? These classes? Absolutely. Okay. You know, we have, for example, if you’re only looking at rural residential or residential in general, basically under the county, we have three.

00:19:47,900	We got RR, R1 and R2, and while I’m not real clear on the difference between rural, single family, rural single family, rural single family, yeah, we already have three. Yeah, I’m just saying. But over on the city side, we got, you know, our ten two family residential, our five single family residential.

00:20:13,000	Mm multifamily residential are M-10 multifamily residential, arm, 15 multifamily residential RR rural single family residential and R5 rural single family. It seems like we’re just needlessly complicating things. That’s just my thoughts. So. Well, and to add to that, we’re. At the city going through a rewrite of title. four.. And those designations are likely to change by the end of the year. This year or even mid year.

00:20:35,000	So, um, those codes might even change a bit. So some of the stuff I’ve seen, yeah, it’s kind of a moving target. Um, as far as how we’ll adjust between the two jurisdictions, just something for somebody to be aware of. So some of these, it might not be as complicated on that side either.

00:20:57,200	Any other comments? If I could add I just want to point out that there’s obviously quite a few people in the audience that are here for a real good reason. They took time out of their day. Um, so I’d like to kind of move forward with the public hearing and get the input from the citizens. All right.

00:21:13,270	Any any further comments from the Commission before we move to the public hearing? Okay. Hearing none. We’ll open the public hearing. Those that want to speak to the issue on, uh, zoning districts, uh, step up, sign your name and state your name.

00:21:33,570	Well, I brought my own piece of paper with my name on it because usually it’s a total failure when I come to a county meeting because you never have a piece of paper. And I left a dad joke on the back just to lighten. It. So how many veterans are on this commission? So two.

00:21:55,470	I served on a nuclear submarine when I was 17 years old, which is more than most can say they’ve ever done. And I know, and I was on a flag ship. I was on the Hyman G. Recall, and I got there because I had the highest test scores in the fleet at the time.

00:22:12,070	And when I was serving, I did not think that we would be here ever trying to control how people build a home. If you live out in the county, how many, how many commissioners know the square footage of an acre? Oh, I know you do. 40 43,650. But.

00:22:38,230	Yeah, but you look at it, that’s a pretty big piece of dirt. And where I live, I have 16 acres. Why do I need your permission to build something on over 700,000ft of dirt? If I don’t need a bank loan, you should have no input. The only way it affects anybody is if you defraud the bank by building something bad.

00:23:00,730	And they can’t return their investment. A lot of places, if you don’t get a loan, you don’t need a permit. Here. We’re trying to control every damn thing. I guarantee I can afford to build a house without getting a loan.

00:23:18,270	So why do I need you? What? Are you protecting anybody from? You aren’t protecting my neighbor on a 700,000 square foot piece of dirt. I’m not affecting anybody. But yet we’re pretending all these things have validity. And the more I thought about these issues, you know, Brian’s got a big piece of property out on Apple Creek, too. Is he affecting anybody? If he decides to put up another garage? No.

00:23:42,270	Could he build one without getting a bank loan? Pretty sure he can. So at that point, really, why don’t we break this down to reality, where if you’re not affecting other human beings, this is all a pack of BS. I bought 20 acres in West Texas, and the main reason is there’s no zoning allowed on that development.

00:24:03,070	The county stepped back and it was sold outright, developed, but the county has no zoning jurisdiction. I could either haul a camper down there or I could build a mansion there. It’s up to me. It’s my dirt. I do what I want with it. Same thing. I bought two lots in, uh, Holbrook, Arizona.

00:24:25,070	But I can do anything I want in those lots because they can’t be zoned. You know, you try to think people want to move to Bismarck, and then we want to be tyrants and control everything they do. Clear down how many chickens they can have. We’ve fought that at the city level.

00:24:41,570	I mean, my God, if you have 43,000ft, plus, does it matter how many chickens you have roaming around your yard? I mean, at some point we have to go. What are we actually accomplishing here? And I said on the city planning and zoning. I’m just going to ask you that.

00:25:01,800	And you’ve heard me argue there for people’s rights because everybody I mean, we argued about a gas station on 80th because a woman thought if she left her chainsaw sitting in the middle of her lawn, somebody would steal it. Well, number one, I don’t know why you’d be mowing your lawn with a chainsaw.

00:25:16,900	And it was going to draw a prostitutes and pedophiles and all kinds of things. And I told her we can’t build churches because it draws sinners. I mean, that meeting got more views than any other meeting ever. It planning and zoning for the city. But the reality is, what were we accomplishing? The guy owns the land.

00:25:37,600	He isn’t near anybody directly, but yet we want to control everything he does. I mean, we were just. You guys were just talking about a pavement variance and why he’s got five acres. If he wants a dirt driveway, let him have a dirt driveway.

00:25:56,800	Why do we have to get a variance for that? That’s ridiculous. You know, if I want to build a pole barn and leave a dirt floor, zoning is going to city. Zoning says I have to do a four foot frost footing to build a pole barn.

00:26:13,430	It has to be 16 on center studs, even though it’s a ten building, and I have to do a concrete floor. Why? If I’m going to park a tractor in there, all I need is a pole barn with posts and ten and a door. So you change the price from city to county.

00:26:31,570	If we start following what the city wants, a 30 by 30 pole barn is going to go from one you can buy at menards for 13,000 to a $200,000 building. What the hell are we thinking? Once you hit the city limits, that should be the line.

00:26:53,770	I mean, most jurisdictions, the cops turn around at city limits for a reason because they have no jurisdiction there. But as long as you have more than. I mean, we could take all your regulations and flush them down the toilet, and we would be better served saying, if you have more than five acres, that’s your right to do what you want on your land. But yet we don’t do that.

00:27:12,130	I mean, you guys just brought that American tree, which is near us. He built a building that’s in floodway, right? Because that floodplain. That’s not on that request, but. Well, somebody just mentioned it. Yeah, it’s a different property though. Yeah, but you’re right. I mean, it’s just a different property, I believe.

00:27:33,430	Yeah. But if he, if he didn’t borrow money to build the building and the worst thing that’s going to happen is the building he owns floods. What’s the big deal? How much money have we wasted harassing him? A lot. You know, if you want to build an underwater house, build an underwater house.

00:27:51,600	That’s your problem. I can see if a bank is lending money on it, that there should be regulations. But if a bank isn’t involved, what’s it matter? Could anybody answer me? What? How that affects the general public. Mr. chairman, he’s looking for a response.

00:28:19,930	Yeah, well, there’s a good reason why we have zoning ordinances, and I’m very lenient. I think if a guy wants to build a pull bar in the country without a with a dirt floor, I’m all in on that. Things like that. But we have to be concerned about what you do on your property, how it affects the rest of the community, hazardous materials, drainage, combustible things.

00:28:35,930	You might block water in flood to neighbor. You might do all these things. So we have to have some oversight. And I’m very lenient, but I think we need to. There’s a good reason why we have planning and zoning, and I’m with you 100%. It’s gone over the top. We need to make some reductions in it.

00:28:53,000	But there’s reasons for a lot of it. Well, where I live, it’s floodway at the bottom. And what’s humorous is there is no regulation unless you guys hurry up and write one tonight that says how many fish I can own.

00:29:10,770	What’s also humorous about this, you know, from all the planning and zoning, I can move the dirt on my property anywhere I want so I can pick up dirt here and I can move it over here as long as I don’t add dirt, because if it’s a floodway or floodplain, you aren’t supposed to add material because it’ll affect your neighbor. Sure.

00:29:27,800	So I’m going to dig up a lake. I bought an earth mover, so now I’m going to have a fish barn. And what’s funny is you don’t need a permit. I checked fish and game. I check water district. I checked everybody unless I pump water out of the river Apple Creek. Then I have to pay for.

00:29:43,670	Well, no, it’s a free permit, but I have to apply for a free permit to pump water into the hole. That’s going to fill up anyway, because it does rain here once in a while.

00:29:58,700	So when you look at it, then you should have a regulation that says you can move dirt on your property, but don’t add any, because at that point you’re not affecting your neighbors. But to say people can’t build in floodway or floodplain is ridiculous, because they can build it up without affecting their neighbor. But we never think outside the box.

00:30:15,730	You know, a prime example is today I called and you guys are going to find this humorous because they’re way higher in government than you guys are. I called Kramer’s every office Kramer has with a veteran question.

00:30:37,600	I wanted to know why the VA doesn’t cover the part B for Medicare so vets can go directly to any hospital in the country, rather than the VA hospital, which usually has delays, time outs or disapproval. And it’s 160 a month for part B, so I called every office. Kramer has an answering machine. Every time I called every office, Hoven has an answering machine. Williston, Minot, Fargo, Grand Forks, Washington, DC.

00:31:05,930	But I have to say, fedora checked her office, answered the phone immediately. So I lodged that question. But when you look at it, out of 20 offices, our representatives here don’t have anyone to answer the phone. Mr. chairman, I think we’re off top subject.

00:31:28,500	Here, but I’m just saying, when we’re talking about how things get where we are. The people that are supposed to represent us don’t represent us. You can’t get Ahold of them. You send them a Facebook message. I think we need to move on to some so somebody else can speak to. So maybe you need to close your remarks and we’ll move on.

00:31:46,930	Well, I think we should boycott any plan to bring anything from the city. And I don’t believe you can take and do a zoning ordinance that applies to only a small strip of Burley County without you guys all getting sued, because if it doesn’t apply to somebody in wing or out by sterling, it shouldn’t

00:32:09,100	apply to me in the Oeta. All right. So I think you need to say it’s all of Burleigh County or none of Burley County. You can’t draw a line and say, well, you guys used to get screwed by the city. So now we’re going to continue it or just leave us in the city.

00:32:25,400	All right, let’s move on. Let me ask a question before you speak. How many people intend to speak tonight? Raise your hand so I know. Okay, so we won’t do a time limit at this point. Good evening. Commission. I’m here to also speak on the ETI ordinances, and I just want to lead off with.

00:32:54,270	I appreciate the work that’s been done up at this point. I see a lot of faces sitting here tonight that have put in a lot of work, cooperation to get us where we are. Um, you know, you guys heard the residents. We asked to be separated from the the city.

00:33:10,330	And one of our biggest asks was that we wanted representation. But now I’m hearing from representation that we just want to adopt a new set of rules. You know, a lot of us moved out in the country because we wanted to live out in the country, but we also wanted the amenities of city. Um, that’s why I moved out there.

00:33:29,670	I went and got chickens. I didn’t know if I could have chickens or if I couldn’t have chickens. I just knew I wanted chicken, so I went and got them.

00:33:46,530	You know, you guys are making Bismarck Burley County be a place where we got to ask for permission for everything, and I, I posed this question when I spoke on the original Oeta topic. How much money do you guys have to do lawsuits to pay staff to go out and check places? Because at some point people are going to say, we are tired of regulation and we are going to start building. We are going to start doing Burley County specifically.

00:34:05,800	You guys have a very small staff. Mitch sounds like he is already overwhelmed and has a full docket. Is he going to be able to drive around and double check and check? When neighbors snitch on neighbors and people file complaints, how about our Burley County State’s Attorney? Brian, I’m going to keep talking. Um. Commissioner Bittner has.

00:34:25,200	A question. Do you guys have the. I mean, you guys say that Julie’s already backlogged. On a second. I gotta I gotta clarify something for you. You were under these ordinances. We’re talking about removing them. I think the attitude of this commission is removing ordinances. I think you’re you’re on the wrong path.

00:34:44,200	But that’s not what I’m hearing. I’m hearing you want a transfer and you want to make special ordinances for the Oeta group. We know, you know, we’re tired of being special. You’re misunderstanding. I can’t account for what you think you’ve been hearing from your Facebook things or anything else.

00:35:04,000	These are ordinances that you were already under. And we are talking about. removing them, removing or reducing them. So I don’t appreciate being accused of of trying to put regulations on somebody because quite frankly, I’m neighbors with Bob and we agree, you know. But you’re still talking about regulations. Well, yeah, we’re talking about the regulations that you bring.

00:35:24,970	You know as well as I do we have different regulations in Burley County for chickens, as the Aeta people have in Bismarck. I know that. So that’s. What we’re talking. So that’s what we’re talking about. But you’re you’re saying that we’re trying to put ordinances on you.

00:35:38,730	And that’s so far from the truth that I just can’t let go without addressing it. You’re bringing ordinances. You’re I mean, you know, these are changing ordinances. These are on you. You and I had a conversation about shop sizes, Brian. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And we’re talking the conversations that we’ve been having is increasing shop sizes. We don’t disagree here.

00:35:58,970	I think, you know, that’s a lot of transparency there. We need to have a lot of conversations that are being transparent. Like, well I think that this. Is. This is where we have those conversations. So people understand. It is.

00:36:13,000	You know, I haven’t heard a whole lot of conversation about it. Mitch himself said he put a lot on the table. Last meeting for you guys to not be able to digest it when you have a packet in front of you, how do you expect the average citizen to digest that? Well it’s not I mean, you’re it’s not.

00:36:26,670	You’re the representation. It’s our job as representatives of you to understand that. But if we don’t get involved at some point, then we come back and we’re behind the ball. You know how that works also. Yeah. Well, I want you to know I appreciate you being here.

00:36:41,300	The thing I had an issue with is you’re trying to make it sound like this board is trying to put zoning ordinance. Well, I think it raises. This board is trying. To I think it raises the question, how are we going to enforce this much? I mean, would you say, Mitch, 12,000 plus more people? I mean, do we have the staffing to even enforce that?

00:36:56,100	We’re not going to enforce we’re not going to have any as many ordinances or regulations as currently are there. We’re we’re trying to remove them. And enforcement then won’t be as big of a problem as you think it is.

00:37:10,070	And I’m just saying, like, I live up in the Misty waters area and under city control, you know, we’ve seen things that weren’t being enforced. And then they go on for three years and we fight it and we fight it. And then the city commission just finally says, we’re going to change the rules to make people go away.

00:37:22,870	I mean, John, you know how that went. I mean, I don’t want to see us get into that situation where we’re fighting. We’re we’re on a good track. We’re setting a state precedence. Hopefully we’ll see out of what’s happening right now. We’re going to see some state reform with EPA that’s going to ultimately benefit the citizen.

00:37:38,330	So I guess between the conversation here, I, I think there needs to be some clarification and some more transparency, because when we look at a packet and there’s really nothing there, it’s difficult to decipher. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? Let me add some clarification, um, to it.

00:38:02,530	As far as US commissioners at a table based on open meeting law, we can’t talk to each other. Um, a lot behind closed doors. That’s meetings. Behind meetings. That’s the reason why the representative process is there in Robert’s Rules. So. Right.

00:38:26,000	What we have before us, and I appreciate Mitch having the side by side, the accessory building area, we change that to 4% of the city. For one clarification. But this is what’s here. Now, all of this is up for discussion. And, um, it can be changed. It can be things can be taken out.

00:38:46,130	There’s some things to consider too, like the FEMA flood, um, designations, because that impacts people’s insurance rates. And we got to keep that in mind. And Mitch will come up and explain some of those things. But to have all of us here so we can engage in conversation with you is so that this is the meeting for that discussion.

00:39:04,470	It’s not because if we do it behind closed doors and bring it to you, that’s a open meeting. A lot of violation. So just that point of clarification okay. Good point. Thank you. Okay. Next. Okay I think I have the right time now. Sorry. Um, so I’m here to just give input.

00:39:31,070	Um, I know some of you were at the other commission meetings where I did give some input, but some of you are not there new faces to me. So, um, I think what I want you to know is just our experience. Because maybe that can help guide your process. Because I think we have a unique experience. Maybe, possibly.

00:39:46,930	Um, you know, I kind of looked at the ETAs and how long it’s been around. And in North Dakota, my research says, and since 1929, which was really shocking to me. But that’s how long ETAs have been in existence. Um, so given this history, I think it’s worth asking why we’ve reached such a critical juncture.

00:40:07,200	Um, where landowners are no longer willing to tolerate an ETA. And I think that Mr. Field and, you know, um, Mr. Jensen, have, you know, probably given some input into some of that, um, our perspective is my husband and I began remodeling homes in 1987.

00:40:28,200	We were just two years out of high school, and, um, we never hired a contractor. We built homes with our own two hands in 92. And in 2004, we built one in Burleigh County. And again this past year, we did, uh, build an accessible home. My husband’s now in a wheelchair, so we can’t build it with our own two hands. But we hired subcontractors.

00:40:47,730	And the process for that is what I’m here to talk about, because the process since 1987, of course, it’s nothing like it was. I mean, um, I kind of agree with Mr. Field in that, you know, this we’re talking about residential single family homes, whatever the designation is that’s been going on for forever.

00:41:09,800	And since 1929, apparently homes have been built in the ETA in in my experience, in 2004, things are much different since 2004 and light years from 92. So again, um, you know, I don’t know why that is. I’m not sure, but it feels like an overregulation of private property. It’s gone too far. And that’s my opinion.

00:41:33,730	And that’s why the ETA, I think, has been challenged. That’s why we have people that are upset. While I respect government fulfilling its duties, there has been interference through overreach, such as stopping private property development with questionable justifications that are not rooted in statute. From my understanding.

00:41:53,770	And that needs to be addressed, that needs to be stopped. I’ve. I previously offered this example, so this is just a quick soundbite on it that we were told I we own property. Both my husband and I own a piece of property and my family owns a property. Our personal property is staying or is out of the ETA.

00:42:14,470	The family property is still under the ETA, so, um, you know, it’s just it’s confusing to me. Um, why we’ve gotten to this point, why things are so different from the last time we built, which, you know, was basically 20 years ago.

00:42:38,500	Um, and we were told basically for the family property that’s still under the ETA that we couldn’t put storage units on it because there wasn’t a fire department to respond to it. Now, I wasn’t at that meeting. Another family member was.

00:42:56,030	And I when they came back to me, I said, well, what exactly do we have? Rural fire services for then? But you see, it’s a bureaucracy that’s making decisions behind the scenes that I could tell from one meeting that a commissioner didn’t even know this kind of stuff was going on behind the scenes. And then some of them do, because I have heard privately that they know what goes on.

00:43:10,630	Because whatever committee you have, that all goes together where there’s only two county representatives and the rest are city, they know that that’s going on. I’m not the only I didn’t even know like that.

00:43:25,000	Other people had heard the fire department excuse until I came to one of these commission meetings, and a commissioner brought it up because he’d had somebody complain. I didn’t complain to him. So that that is going on. And so, um, when we built last year, the process was delayed. I started that, I think the late fall of 23, early 24, and by the time we navigated the bureaucracy, by September, we still hadn’t had approval on our permit process.

00:43:49,530	Um, in spite of that, we began to put the the filtered in because otherwise we knew we were going to be set back another year. So the convoluted system demonstrates that there’s simply too much bureaucracy, single residential homes, like I said, they’ve been built forever.

00:44:03,730	Um, and I’ll just talk about one of the county regs that came up because they were the last to sign off. Um, see, we we split our property into, uh, we had three acres and we split it and so that we could build another home because we were in the floodplain and it

00:44:17,770	didn’t matter. We wanted to stay. We were out by the pumpkin patch. So on our original property, we have an accessory building a shop at the back of our yard in, and it’s obviously, ah, in the riverbed area. So you need gravel then to access accessory buildings.

00:44:36,930	So we had gravel to the to taking where we could get to the back of the lot. However, when it came time for the county engineer to sign off on the permit, concerns were raised about the road we had on the section line of our property.

00:44:56,070	This was just the most level area at the end of our driveway, used for parking and accessing a shop without driving through mud, but it was defined as a road on the section line. So despite the cost and usefulness of this area for extra parking, we complied and moved the gravel to the new building immediate adjacent to our existing home.

00:45:12,130	We moved it to the new lot, and then we were told to plant grass, which of course we would have done anyways. Next we were instructed to relocate the property towards the ditch and finally that we had to move the gravel that we’d piled up because we piled it on the section line on the new

00:45:28,170	driveway, because it was at the end of everything where the building was going on. The requirement to slope the lot, which had never been sloped before, was the last straw. And additionally the ditch in in question is not even up to code, but that was deemed irrelevant.

00:45:45,130	So, you know, kind of I mean, I’m just going to be honest as having built multiple homes. I kind of wondered, never had this kind of oversight before ever.

00:46:00,830	I mean, like, were we being singled out because we didn’t have a contractor? I don’t know, um, but we at that point, my husband had a discussion and said, we aren’t going to comply. And as has been discussed here, we’ll get an attorney because it was just getting over, over too much. So it just in our experience, the current process and the level of oversight have far exceeded what we believe is constitutionally appropriate for property owned by individuals.

00:46:19,930	We need to return to essential safety oversight, enforce equally across all parties. So it shouldn’t be different for a contractor. I can tell you I was held to codes that a contractor build a house right across my street, not held to any codes.

00:46:35,400	So if there’s going to be zoning and planning, you better be holding everybody accountable. The same. There shouldn’t be any, you know. Oh, they’re a contractor. So we just assume that they’ll hire it. Well, you should be checking them. Just like you’re driving out to my property three times. I think the county engineer had time to drive out to my property.

00:46:49,800	So that’s why I’m here. I wanted to raise awareness about how these offices are operating and to urge the elimination of any ordinance not required by whatever funding you need. The city of Bismarck just passed, and you know this, I don’t know. I didn’t even stay on top of what they passed around.

00:47:08,570	If you own a private business and you can’t park a vehicle anywhere, well, in the E.T.A., that’s county land, and now you can’t even pack your park. Your, if I understand it correctly, your business vehicle on it. It’s ridiculous. So. So I would just say that.

00:47:35,730	For those I think the thing that got confusing for me was Mitch saying we needed to adopt the city ordinances at the last meeting or however we he said it. So at that point, I thought we were still saying under the same guidelines as before. So I’m relieved to know that you don’t want to do that.

00:47:49,730	But I do think you need to know there’s still a lot of oversight, even, that goes on at the county level, that I’m asking for you to take a look at in zoning and get back to essential. Essential. You understand that our goal is to to reduce the..

00:48:06,130	Yeah, I do know, but that wasn’t clear, you know, from the televised meeting. So yes. And I’m just telling you you have to go beyond that in my opinion, because you have to look at what the staff that are hired to carry this out are doing under supposedly your guidance. Commissioner Butler. Help me understand where your property is at.

00:48:23,230	It’s, um, on Fernwood Drive by the pumpkin patch. So it’s it’s an acre. We had originally three little, almost three acres. Was that under the county jurisdiction? No. It is in the EPA. Now. So I do not believe it.

00:48:44,000	How is it that you’re having problems? But you’re blaming the county because you’re under the city? Well, it was the county. I had to we had to jump through hoops at both the city and the county. Both had to sign off on our on our on our bill, which was so confusing to us because that’s not how it was in 2004. So we we assumed something had obviously changed.

00:49:00,070	We had to go through multiple committees. I don’t even know. They wrote us a letter. It’s so convoluted. Yeah, I understand, except the letter. Except that you know the county. From what I’m getting, from what you’re saying, the county would have had an issue because of a section line.

00:49:15,630	The county doesn’t care what you do with your driveway. I don’t, I don’t I can’t believe anybody on the road. I don’t believe anybody. It’s it was gravel we threw down. Dan. You know. Um, get any insight on you heard the same thing I did. What? Yeah. Without knowing the exact location, Mr. Commissioner Bitner, um, we’d have to go.

00:49:41,870	Going back and look, um, I know there was several people that developed down in that area or platted, and that would have went through the the city process. Um, and it would have been reviewed by a KC from our staff. And there may have been some recommendations or requirements via that process.

00:49:59,800	Okay. Um, do you have anything to add, Casey? I can. So, so without knowing exactly where your driveway or property is at, I’m not 100%. Sure, because it sounds like that’s not consistent with what my understanding of how the county highway department works. We we haven’t had that kind of an issue. Go ahead. Casey. Yeah.

00:50:21,270	If I remember, I think this is Fernwood Drive in Sandy River drive on the northwest corner, just roughly saying. So when they came in and they wanted a building portion, one of their driveways went through a non access line. So it was okay, we have to get that corrected.

00:50:38,270	They also had a private drive that was gravel in there lot that went across multiple lots. And it was okay, we have to clean it up somehow.

00:50:55,330	We’re pretty open to how you want to do it, but when you want to build that new lot to the north, there was an existing structure on it. And if you I think it was a an accessory building, and if you want to put a new home there that that’s fine.

00:51:07,170	But we then have to have that separate and you have to have a separate approach permit and you have to be able to work, work through that. And it was once you do all that, you have to have the approach on deferment drive. You can’t. It’s not accessing through lots unless you want to put access easements and you don’t want to do access easements.

00:51:23,370	Then you have to remove it and get all that set up and be able to go through there. And going through the process they contact. Well, we don’t. The ditches and Ada and I was I agree, no ditches are Ada I, I agree with you on that. And it’s two foot deep.

00:51:40,770	That’s what subdivision road standards are for two foot going through there. I know trying to explain all those codes and processes. It is long. It’s a lot to learn and trying to help, help explain that can be frustrating on a good day going through there. But that was, if I’m remembering right.

00:51:58,330	That’s what was a lot of the areas and we’re just trying to help them get through that to address the different areas up there. Okay. Thanks. Yep. Appreciate it. It wasn’t an issue of putting in the approaches. We understood that the issue was gravel sitting at the end of my current driveway that just went back to the accessory shop. Obviously we wouldn’t have been using that road anymore.

00:52:20,230	Gravel that’s put down. But like I said, it just at the end where we’re being told you have to, you know, move your gravel from the pile, you have. Come on. That’s it’s gone beyond any. Questions from me. I’m not going to. Any further questions from the commission. Thank you.

00:52:39,470	Realistically, I know the instructions that we have to our staff is to be as helpful as absolutely possible. So I don’t understand how that could have even happened. Uh, Vice Chair, I just have a question for the the lady that stepped away. What do you think? He has a question? Oh, yes. Go ahead. Commissioner.

00:53:00,730	Yeah, I know I didn’t catch your name, but, uh, is your suggestion to to, uh, basically just adopt the county ordinances for everything that is in the county or that’s going to move from the ETA to the county.

00:53:18,030	Is that your suggestion? My suggestion would be that you review the processes and procedures that are getting carried out by staff at both the city and the county. But of course, this is just the county. And so and then the other thing would be that it’s as least government intrusive as possible, like government.

00:53:36,070	I mean, why is government even involved in making a decision about what size a building accessory building you put on at all? I agree with Mr. Field on that. Like why? How did we get to this point? It’s not a good place to be in America. It’s just not. There should be limited government intrusion into what we can do with our private property. I mean, Mr.

00:53:56,970	Field, he carries out some really great examples, but I’m just saying, like, there’s a lot of people that agree that agree with what he has to say and believes governments, the overreach has just gone beyond. It’s just gone beyond. And part of that, I’m sure, is all the federal money that gets tied to this.

00:54:13,930	Any other questions from commissioners? Commissioner Conley. I just have one clarification. When you mentioned home occupation, that was a long conversation. So when you talked about like a commercial, um, vehicle in a lot and things, that was part of the old we’re actually because of this.

00:54:34,200	And there’s people in the audience here that were part of that. And we spoke a lot on it. Um, the city ordinance is a lot more lenient than what the county is currently. So the stipulation you have is not consistent with what’s there currently. Just as a clarification.

00:54:54,700	You know what? And that’s very well true, because I don’t think most of us even know what’s gotten past in all these years. I had no idea that the building process had changed. And again, we built that house in 2004 with our own hands. We did everything. We had no contractor, nothing, not even a subcontractor.

00:55:10,900	So, I mean, I think we did have one subcontractor, but that it’s just changed. It’s it’s overregulated. It’s like the hoops you have to jump through. I don’t know if it’s because I was in the itI. I don’t know why.

00:55:28,800	I mean, and forgive me if I got the staff confused on who was where, but I mean, KC is the one that dealt with the gravel issue. So after you said his name, it clicked for me. So, um, and I’m not saying that they weren’t helpful at other stages. I’m just saying the overregulation, like going through multiple committees this and that. It shouldn’t take nine months to get approval on a permit build. That’s never how it used to be. Never.

00:55:49,700	Any other questions? Any other questions? None. All right. Anybody else want to speak? Be sure to state your name and sign in on the register. There. My name is Jan Wangler. Um. I’m at Apple Creek Township resident, and I live across the street from city. The actual city. County line.

00:56:24,270	I’m on 52nd Street, so one side of the road is the city and one side is the county. I was delighted that our subdivision was pulled out of the MTA, because it is an area where people already have chickens.

00:56:46,170	People already have large buildings, people have lots that are likely not going to be subdivided in a way that would fit with the city. It made no sense for us to be in city zoning. The things that we are able to do now, we should continue to be able to do so.

00:57:03,900	I’m delighted that, um, you’re trying to put county zoning into what was the ETA for the the residents that were pulled out. But my question would be, are there multiple dividing lines or is there a new ETA now that some of these residents have been put back into county zoning and what happens to them? And is the ETA actually for planning city growth? And if city growth isn’t going that direction, is there a need for

00:57:31,530	that much regulation? Um, a lot of these people that have been coming up have been saying, I’d like to be able to do X, Y, or Z with my property, but they’re not being able to do so because somebody has their thumb. They’re saying, no, we have a regulation.

00:57:49,070	No, we have you have to have a permit. Permit means permission. So I need permission to do things on the property that I own. And that seems backwards to me. It’s like you don’t work.

00:58:08,400	Um, and put the time in to a property and invest in it for somebody else to tell you what to do with it. So if there is a way to keep the regulations, and it sounds like I may have misunderstood partially what the intent of this public hearing was, because I understood that it was to put zoning into place for the people that were in the ETA,

00:58:30,270	like you were going to give us some kind of special restrictions. And and I understand now that that’s not the case. However, um, that doesn’t mean that I am in favor of the county now coming and saying, well, you’re in that former ETA, so you don’t exactly get to be the same

00:58:48,970	zoning as the county. You have these additional things you have to do. So, um, that’s that’s my fear. So that that’s why I’m speaking up and, and letting my thoughts be known. I don’t think that’s going to happen, but, Commissioner Bittner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

00:59:06,700	No, that’s the whole reason we’re here. Um, it’s like he had said. We don’t have these conversations offline. You know, our conversations are here in front of the public, and I’m not aware of anybody that wants to add any, any additional stuff. The goal really is to do the opposite. You know, um, the county zoning ordinances.

00:59:33,830	And you may be surprised to learn that in some cases, the county zoning ordinances are more restrictive than the city. You know, that’s not that’s not a necessarily a rock free road, either. True. And so, you know, we have to look at that and see what do we need to change. And it’s all part of a change.

00:59:54,130	But the goal was never to add something that didn’t exist because, you know, part of part of the reason with considering what already exists is if we take that away, does that harm anybody like you or or Travis or Bob or anybody or me? You know, because I live

01:00:12,330	out there, too. So the goal was not to make it worse, but in some cases, county ordinances are tighter than what you are currently under. So we didn’t didn’t want to go there either. Right? So it’s we’re still working on that. You know, we’re still early in the process.

01:00:28,700	It’s a little bit closer to what I thought should happen, because being under the thumb of the city, we couldn’t vote on anything in the city, but we were being regulated by them so that taxation without representation thing actually came into play.

01:00:49,100	And to have some of that removed is actually, you know, it makes us breathe a little bit easier. Well, you know, I’ve been on the front line of that since, you know, 18, almost 20 years now. So we’re going to continue. Yeah. And if I can help with that since it comes out.

01:01:04,470	But it helps with the education so we can catch it along the way. Um, and that but um, 95% of the established dwellings are going back to county jurisdiction. I mean, um, and then 5% are staying in, um, an example is some of the ones that are staying in or around the airport.

01:01:25,470	Uh, everybody knows about the airline accident in Tennessee. So there’s some FAA things. So it kind of makes sense that properties, there’s some hoops to jump through there. So I’ve already, um, drafted language and I’ve been talking to legislators to where now you can actually vote for the people that regulate you.

01:01:44,000	But then for the 5%, we have to address it at a state level to allow a local jurisdiction to make the choice at, say, city commission level, to redraw the line, to allow those 5% to vote for the people that regulate them.

01:02:00,570	Now it’s a roll of the dice and knowing what the state will do. But that’s where keeping on top of the education, showing up to these meetings and things. Let’s make a swing. Fargo can be Fargo if they want to stay exactly the same as they were since 1977. They can do that. Let Bismarck be Bismarck.

01:02:17,900	Let Burleigh County be brother county so we can do right by our citizens and go from there, if that makes sense. It does. Um, but I would say that there is a level of trust that we need to have maybe in all of you, that has sometimes been misguided because the ETA has changed.

01:02:40,100	When I sat on the city planning and zoning, it was voted. I did not vote for it, but it was voted to go to four miles. And then it came back to two. I understand, um, but it’s like if they have the chance to grab something that’s bigger and larger and more control, it seems to happen.

01:02:57,130	So, um, I’m, I’m just saying that that’s taking place in the past. So we always have to be aware and we have to. Show up. Mister chair. Commissioner. I need to point out, though, that that once the city went to the four mile, that that actually still exists.

01:03:15,430	The reason that everything that has happened to back it off and whatnot has been based on a, um, uh, we call it joint negotiated boundaries. So, you know, if we goof this up and it gets out of control and the city feels that the county is not operating properly, they might just up and say, one day

01:03:35,130	we’re going to go right back to four because they can’t. Now, I don’t want that to happen. I want everybody to I want us to have peace in the valley. Right. But, um, that so that that four mile. My point is that it exists regardless of what we do here. Right. Okay.

01:03:53,700	Commissioner Risch. Yeah, I just want to make it clear that and I’m a city commissioner. Uh, the city of Bismarck by statue is allowed to go up to four miles.

01:04:10,870	But we voluntarily went back to two miles, and then relinquished 95% of all the homes in the Oeta and 49% of all the land. We only hung on to the stuff that it was pretty obvious that the city was going to expand in that area in the future. And we didn’t want we wanted to be developed in such a way that it would fit with the city.

01:04:26,330	Uh, we we were sincere in our negotiations with the county and gave up a lot of the territory that we were. We were once under our control. So. Mister Chair. Yes. I believe the lady at the podium of her properties on the east side of 52nd Street is an Apple Creek jurisdiction. Yes. So Burleigh County would not be, um, in charge of your zoning. Apple Creek is.

01:04:48,670	When the the new Etta maps came out, it said that our subdivision was taken out of the Etta. That’s why I mentioned that. Yes, that is correct. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that is correct.

01:05:05,800	So that the properties in Burley County that were taken out of the Etta of the city, are you saying that I am not in county jurisdiction? If you’re on the east side of 50s or. I think that’s what the agreement was. The agreement was to shift the jurisdiction from the city to the county. That was my understanding.

01:05:23,400	It didn’t have anything in my mind to do with giving jurisdiction to a township. Dan, did you have something to say about that? Yeah, yeah. Uh, Mister Chairman, commissioners, uh, the way that the Highway Department understands that is since the boundary for the Etta was pulled back and Apple creeks

01:05:41,670	kind of would expand back to where the Etta was relinquished, is that not the case? No, that was never the intent. Oh, I probably wrong on that, though. Um, once everything’s out of the Etta, it goes to the county. Then we go back to the county rules and Apple Creek Township retains zoning authority in the area.

01:06:09,930	But platting authority is still really counties, and it still runs through all of those parts. And I’m not saying it can’t be changed in the future. That’s just kind of how it reverts for the time being. No one, no, that’s not my understanding. The agreement was between the city and the county.

01:06:28,730	You had the city’s jurisdiction. That city’s jurisdiction was going to the county. The this is a big deal to me because I have a fair amount of land in the Etta, and I am not. My land is never intended on any of those maps in any of the conversations.

01:06:49,400	To be under township zoning, I can guarantee you Jan Wangler doesn’t want to be under township zoning either. Yep. And I. Know that’s not that. It was never the intent.

01:07:08,230	And I don’t know how you came to that interpretation, but the documentation I’ve seen and I think what I signed was that was transferring city jurisdiction to the county on those things that were under city jurisdiction. Now there is parts that was under the township that the city had negotiated with Apple Creek Township. Um, none of that changed, you know, but none of the city’s jurisdiction was transferring to any township. Yeah. And we can read through through it, through that.

01:07:29,730	That’s okay. We’ll have another conversation about that. But that was never the intent. No, I. Gave you the conversations unless you commissioners had any other ideas. But that was never the intent. Yep. And that’s why the agreement’s written out so we can reread it. That’s the problem. Okay.

01:07:45,400	Well, I think, you know, I’ll defer to Commissioner Conley as well. But I think when the city relinquished this back to the county was to the county, whether or not the county decides to give that jurisdiction to the various townships, that that would be put to you. That’s that’s my point there.

01:08:01,470	You know, the goal was not to. Well, for example, if if I had a wild hair and I have no intention of doing any development on my land, but if I wanted to take that land and develop it under the county or the city, whichever, either one, um, these specific rules

01:08:18,000	apply that I’ve been part of for a long, long time. Um, but under the township zoning, you could maybe only do five acre lots. And if I take 18.

01:08:37,830	5 acres and divide that into five acre lots versus acre and a half or something, well, who’s going to do that? And so that was part of the reasoning why there was we weren’t considering that at all, because that’s a major change. You know, um, okay. Any other comments? Um. It’s good that we ask the questions. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak? State your name and sign. In, please.

01:09:07,600	My name is Wayne Martinson, northeast of Bismarck. Here. I got this property up in Burnt Creek Township, and, uh, I’ve been trying to get that out on the ETA. And right at the end of the line there. And that’s between, uh, 97th and 110th.

01:09:25,900	And now, the way I understand this now, this new map that’s out of there now, right. That’s the way it is. Would that be a mixed. Question? Address when. you have an address. The address of the property. Yeah. There’s between 97th and 110th and Apple Creek Township, section 27. Apple Creek. Yeah. Apple Creek Township. No, not appropriate. Burnt Creek okay. Burnt Creek. Sorry about that.

01:09:51,870	I know we’re neighbors, but not that. Close. And you’re lucky. It’s 710. Yeah. No, it’s all right. 110th and 97th along the railroad track. South of 110. Yeah, that is in the city of Bismarck. Yeah. I mean, just quite a few of these meetings already. Try to get that removed. So. Yeah.

01:10:21,830	The idea is they wanted they wanted the populated areas back to Burleigh County and the undeveloped areas they wanted to. Keep it’s farmland, it’s cropland. Yeah. That would be an issue for the city here. Okay. So.

01:10:39,470	So, well, if you have a physical address, you can go to the city website, punch it in, and they’ll tell you whether or not you’re in the Oeta or not. Is there any. Well, it has been in there and I’ve been trying to for the last, uh, all summer. I’m trying to get that removed from there. So, Wayne.

01:10:59,670	Yes, you’ve met with, um, the planning department in the city or. Right. I haven’t met with them yet. No. You haven’t met with the staffing? No. Um. I’ll send you the number and get exact wording in that you and I have had a conversation in that it’s right along that 26th Street corridor and things, um, raw land is, um, like, um, Commissioner Risch mentioned.

01:11:26,570	He said 49%. I think it’s 47 and 53, 53 remaining in 47 remaining out. But those once people start throwing the numbers around, gets a little convoluted. But get an exact statement from the planning department and then follow up with either myself or, well, probably me.

01:11:48,330	Since you already talked with me. And let’s have that discussion just outright. I thought you’d already talked to planning. Oh, I was waiting for this meeting here. Okay. I didn’t think I had to meet with them. Mr. Chair. Yes, yes. Go ahead. Brian. Okay.

01:12:07,070	I I’m I’m certainly aware of Wayne’s, um, concerns and and the issues and I’ve seen response from the city staff to him. And I think one of the biggest things that the city wanted to make sure that they were able to address, um, essentially sewer lines. Right. Is that what. There’s no sewer lines there.

01:12:27,470	I know there’s none there now, but it had I think what from what I remember reading it, the, the opinion of staff was that they needed to control his land so that they had some control for sewer. Correct. Yep. Okay.

01:12:47,070	And that’s, that seems to me something that the county can certainly take into consideration because it’s as important to us as it is to the city. I’m the guy that worked with the rural water system to get them to take over the maintenance on the community sewer systems in in the ranch subdivision and Misty waters. And so what they do is they maintain that system as essentially like a municipal utility.

01:13:11,130	And then that cost gets added to the bill. The water bill of the folks that are getting the service. So the rest of Burleigh County isn’t paying for it.

01:13:27,400	And so we have we have a track record of looking at actual improvements to the thing, because I think one of the city’s initial concerns, when they get to these rural developments is how to hook up city water and sewer well on the ranch subdivision and those other subsequent ones. Now, um, the water and sewer comes out of the front of the house going out to the road, just exactly like the city does. That never happened before.

01:13:43,270	And that’s part of what we instituted, so that when the city gets there, those those that infrastructure is already in place. And I think that was one of the best things that we ever did for the from the county to assist the city’s development in the future.

01:14:01,970	And so the county, I believe, has a vested interest in an active interest in trying to make sure that water and sewer and all those things are looked at for the future. So I don’t think that’s the only reason that Mr. Martinez’s land should be, um, in the EPA versus out of the Etta. Etta, that’s more like, uh, eminent domain.

01:14:23,170	And you know what I think of that? Mister chair. thank you. Thank you again. You know, for for Wayne’s benefit, when the county made the original motion, uh, to move. forward with the CTA, his land was actually one of the items in the motion.

01:14:40,800	And it is the one item that the city did not agree with. Uh, and I know, Wayne, it needs to continue the conversation with city planning and zoning. Uh, because I know there’s been additional conversations about his land and and Commissioner Bitner is correct. There, their reasoning for keeping it within the Oeta is exactly that sewer lines going north to the next group of developed properties.

01:15:05,270	That’s quite a ways out for sewer lines. Yeah, well, we want to work together. I mean, we, we we got to get get past this notion that one branch of government is, is, um, the only one that can help the citizens. We, we represent the same people. Yep. I don’t I don’t know how else to put it.

01:15:26,670	If I can follow up with what Commissioner Munson was saying, is, is that there were three other properties that came forward. And I think I made that, um, motion for those. And those were out.

01:15:45,600	The difference with those were they were established, um, residential properties where yours is the raw land. Um, so we can continue to further that conversation. Um, this is the biggest moving of the needle in the good direction that we’ve had since 1977. So there’s going to be a, um, more conversation to come. Um, the all or nothing gets a lot more difficult. To okay it that way.

01:16:09,530	I’ll be waiting to hear from you. Yeah. Thank you. YouTube. Bitner. You two. Oh, yeah. Thank you. I’ll be in touch. Thank you. Anybody else want to speak? To the podium, please. And sign in and state your name. I’m Lisa pelt. Um. Good evening.

01:17:00,800	I live, um, right beside Wayne. At 2101 110th Avenue. So, um, I seem this is the first time I’m coming to this meeting, and I’m trying to understand everything that’s going on.

01:17:27,330	Um, but it does seem like there’s a lot of confusion, um, amongst us, um, as to what is like what is going on, whether our land would be under the Oeta or not, under the Oeta. Um, so I’m just kind of coming here to say that we do not want to be under the Oeta. Um, we think that the county has.

01:17:51,470	I mean, if that’s what it if that’s what it is, I’m trying to understand, but I think the county has, um, the knowledge and to keep us in line, you know, with, um, with what we can do and what we can’t do. Um, but from what a lot of the people are saying, we moved out there to have our own piece of land.

01:18:14,930	So we don’t want to be controlled. Um, unreasonably. Um, just, you know, kind of echoing what everybody has said. You know, it shouldn’t, shouldn’t take months and months to get permission to do something with your own property that you purchased.

01:18:41,070	Um, and what else is coming in the future? You know, I mean, we don’t want any more control than what is necessary to keep things, you know, in line with our neighbors and and such. So that’s all I have to say. I’m. Commissioner Munson. Thank you. Thanks. Good point. First off, I think if you live next to Wayne, you’re probably not in the Oeta.

01:19:06,300	And so you’re no danger of having any issues. Well. We were having conversations that. Hold on. I did just look her up, and she’s in this gray shaded area.. Right? It’s not. That, Mister chair. She’s not in the Oeta. Okay? So you’re. You’re safe either way. Okay. I’m safe. Um, okay, but but I wanted to. But there’s. A lot. Of confusion.

01:19:26,370	There’s. The lady mentioned something, and then you mentioned something about a couple of months to get a permit. And I don’t know if you’re speaking off of her input or something, but there is no way that it takes nine months to get a building permit in Burleigh County, right? Nine

01:19:44,130	hours, nine hours. Okay, we we established the Burleigh County Planning and Zoning and building Inspections to improve that because we had too much citizen concerns about the delays.

01:20:04,900	Right? I mean, if you want to hear somebody complain about delays, you go up here and talk to Butler Cat and see how long it took them to get a building permit to add on to their building. Right. Jim? Um, I think it took them a couple of years. Wow. And so we we are very strong on on the guidance that we gave to staff to get it done.

01:20:24,070	You know, we’re we’re here working for the citizens and I, I don’t know how to make it any more clearer than that. So I don’t know how how she had the problem of a nine month thing for a building permit working under the city, but that’s over. We’re we’re beyond that. We’re moving on to a new just a whole new thing here. Now.

01:20:43,800	Okay. But thank you for your input. I really. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Next. Well, anybody else want to speak? I do. Have a question for go ahead. Uh, Commissioner Bittner and Lisa, um, if her land, is, it is in the same shaded area as Martinez’s land.

01:21:03,530	No, it’s 110 and 97th. Is that what you’re looking at? Yep. And that’s the on that. That’s not where Wayne lives. No. But he’s not talking about. That’s his land. Well, she said she lives next to Wayne. Yes. That’s where she lives. Next to his land. I’m sorry. I misunderstood that. I’m sorry.

01:21:21,700	That’s a good clarification, because I misunderstood when she said she lives. That’s why I looked at him when you said you lived next to him. Because I go, oh, I know where he lives, right? Yeah, but he. I don’t know what. You’re close there anyway, but. Okay, that’s all fine. Yeah. All right.

01:21:35,000	It appears she is still in the. She’s in. The eta. ETA after. March 1st because. Her property did not get. removed. All, like, right next to them. That Northwoods. I’m sorry. Right next to her property that Northwoods is removed. But along with Wayne Martinez’s land, hers is right. Right there. On the edge of something. Yeah.

01:22:01,730	She’s okay. Can we work on that. mister chair? You know? Yes. Is your address 2101 110th Avenue. She is out of the ETA. Oh. So this isn’t a correct map? Yeah, I it’s it is out of the ETA. You you missed the ETA by about 500ft. Okay. So now let’s be very clear.

01:22:25,870	So she is under county jurisdiction. Uh, no, that. Or never was. That never was. She’s been under the county. She’s in the city. It’s just I mean, it’s it’s not in the transfer area of the ETA. The her her property is not in that transfer area to to Berlin County’s jurisdiction. Oh, so she’s still under the city? Yes. Okay. Okay.

01:22:57,730	We’re going to. Try to help you. Yeah, we’re we’re going to try to help you. Okay? Okay. All right. Thank you very much. You’re welcome. All right. Next, we need to work. Um. Again, please sign in and state your name. And show. You. Good evening. My name is Tyson Austin.

01:23:34,270	Um, at least one of you guys know who I am. Um, I’m actually the one that Mr. Connell was talking about. Uh, that dealt with the city on the ETA zone. Um, I don’t have as much dirt as Mr. Field back here does, but I do have about 200,000ft. Um, that I call mine. Um, I’m really hoping.

01:23:52,800	And obviously, by coming out of the ETA, I’m glad to hear that you guys are not going to try to impose more rules on us. That’s awesome.

01:24:07,830	Um, I am really hoping, though, that all of the fighting that I did with the city and the ETA about being able to have my trailers and my trucks and stuff come to my house doesn’t go out the window now. Um, I know the Burleigh County does have, you know, more strict rules about that, unless you’re agricultural. You know, if you’re a farmer, you can basically have whatever the heck you want.

01:24:26,000	Um, I own a landscaping company. I lease a shop in town, and that’s always been my complaint. I’m not taking my stuff to my shop in town so it can get stolen. I’m just not going to do that.

01:24:41,930	Um, so every night I bring my trucks and my my enclosed trailers to my house. Um, and I just don’t want that to have to end, you know? And again, I’ve got almost five acres. It’s out of the way. It’s not in, you know, it’s it’s inside if you come down my road.

01:24:57,400	But where I live, if you come down my road, you’re my neighbor. And my neighbors don’t care. And I just want to make sure that that’s not something that’s going to be changing. No comments. Mister chair. Mister chair. Uh, unless we adopt some more ordinance to allow, that’s not allowable in our current county zoning.

01:25:29,030	What we do for what we allow for home occupancy or occupation is no external employees, and no more than 25% of the primary home can be used. No on site sales. Uh, no employees. The city allows three external employees, 50% of the primary home, and 100% of an accessory building. Um, so sales allowed and less traffic problems. So we are night and day difference between them.

01:25:55,600	So in the city also allows up to 10,000ft of your lot to be used for storage of trucks, trailers, equipment, whatnot. And all. Yeah, I’ll add context to that.

01:26:23,400	And Tyson could, uh, back it up a lot of the city elect as well as staff, we’re not really amenable to this, but the turnout in the response from the citizens, how our representative process works to where we literally have the most lenient ordinance. And like a five state region that we know of when it comes to home occupation, a lot of other jurisdictions, because they are more stringent, are uncomfortable with that.

01:26:45,270	So that’s probably going to be a rub within this discussion to how you can make it appropriate. Because what we were finding out is, is that and Commissioner Bittner, you had mentioned it a lot.

01:27:01,470	The $700 fee that went with because that was part of your discussion is they were doing that for the people that actually came trying to do things right and talked to the jurisdiction. Well, if they’re we were averaging $2,100 a year in collections, there’s literally hundreds of occupations out there.

01:27:20,130	So I got up during a public comment at the city Planning and Zoning, and I said, why don’t we just put our name on the first right of refusal? If somebody is doing a business wrong and not worry about that fee, and that way they can transfer less cost to the customer, because a lot of these are Ma and pa single shops. And if they do something wrong, then go after and probably get more than the $2,100.

01:27:38,300	We don’t want people doing it the wrong way. Now. How it’s addressed, that’s up to the county now. We can’t really say. I mean, since I’m on this seat, I have a little bit of say in explaining that history in one vote. But there’s a lot of us. Okay. Um.

01:27:53,530	And I was there. Yes. And I was an integral part of this, um, me and a couple of other people were the ones that went into the city meetings. Um, I was part of one of the groups. I was very, a very, very big voice in this.

01:28:08,670	I helped write the statute, and I would really hate to see all the work that I did go down the tube, because now I’m a county resident who should have more rights. And mine are actually going to shrink.

01:28:25,870	Um, and I’m not I’m not up here asking to run a full scale landscaping company out of my house. I’m not asking for that. I just want to make sure that I can have my stuff on my property so it doesn’t get stolen. I’ve got a nice yard. I don’t, you know, I’m not storing mountains of materials.

01:28:43,870	I buy my materials from the suppliers in town, but under the way that things are written now, I’m not going to be able to do that. And I can tell you guys that everybody in the in the MTA, if we have to have this discussion again, I know all those guys and we will be up in arms about this whole thing and having to do it again.

01:29:00,300	Okay. Thank you. Um, we’re going to close the public hearing at this point. Go ahead, Mr. Bittner. Uh, you know, we’re running right into a little bit of a wall because on the one hand, everybody says, well, we don’t want to adopt these ordinances. Correct.

01:29:20,070	And now you’re up here telling us we want to adopt these ordinances or parts of them, or what do you, uh, part one. Part. Right. So, you know, we’re. The the building ordinances, right? Let’s be honest. That’s ridiculous. And I’m I’m not asking for you to adopt an ordinance so that we have less freedom.

01:29:40,000	I’m asking you to adopt an ordinance so we have more freedom. I’m asking you just to continue doing what you’re doing in a bigger manner for all of us. It’s. You guys are up here talking about. We’re trying to make this better for you, and we’re trying to make it, you know, less ordinance. That’s great.

01:29:57,400	Let’s continue that. That’s what I’m asking. I think that that’s probably part of a different discussion. The section that really relates to that. Well, I think it might be in here. Yes. Um, it’s definitely in here. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not in the wrong discussion. I’ve dealt with this before. Okay. It’s a point well taken.

01:30:21,100	I really appreciate it. You know. We’re going to close the public hearing at this point. No. No, we gotta do there’s one. Yeah okay. Yeah. Yes. Okay. We here. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not I’m not late for supper. But Jim here is missing his anniversary. Yeah. My wife’s on my phone right now.

01:30:43,070	Texted me what’s for dinner? So trust me, I don’t want to be here. Make sure you bring good stuff home. No, you guys can come if you want. What do we have? Oh, whatever you want to make everything. If not, if I don’t have time, I’ll just order it. No. No, but.

01:31:03,030	My name is Michael Kernodle. I live at 3,343rd Avenue Northeast. Some of you have heard me talk here before. When this was an issue with the city. Um, when I bought the place a few years back, quite a few years back now, uh, I called the county before I even purchased the property.

01:31:20,200	And it’s ten acres for just about a half 1,000,000ft. I think 10.5 to be exact. If you count some of the road ditch stuff. Um, but basically I said, hey, I plan on purchasing this property.

01:31:42,070	I know the, the originator of the property was someone running a mason who ran the business out of there, and the person who bought it after there ran their business out of there. And I thought it was perfect for me and my son to start our life there with my wife. And that’s kind of why we bought it.

01:31:55,930	So is this is this going to be an issue if I run my business out of there and they said, no, uh, the only thing you got to clear is with the city. If you want to build anything. And I did that, and they said, you’re good as far as we’re concerned. And, uh, I had no problems there.

01:32:08,370	So as far as I’m concerned, I don’t know why I should have to worry about this. If the whole intention of spending $1 million on a property and then another couple million to kind of build it back up and make it look pretty again is to be told, hey, sorry, you can’t do that.

01:32:24,200	We’re going to put you out of business. And that’s the whole reason I bought the property. So to keep it short, that’s kind of where I’m at. I have my all my stuff there so I can keep it safe.

01:32:38,270	And I mean, I’m even not opposed to building a bigger shop to hide a lot of it if it’s too ugly for some people. But my neighbors have all agreed with me with the last discussion that they have more ugly stuff on their property, that they’re even renting parts of it, or storing some online for free.

01:32:55,930	So I guess five, five, five, uh, local businesses ran out of their homes, border my property, and then there’s quite an extensive amount more if you expand into that. So I guess I know I’m speaking for a lot of them when I say that, like any regulation on, uh, running your business in a rural state, I guess that that seems nonsensical.

01:33:16,830	When we were already told that we were okay in the first place with no money or permit necessary at that time. If there is something a better way, I’d be glad to hear it.

01:33:32,770	But right now it just seems like we’re just making a lot of backwards moves, and it’s just going to be more frustrating and more fighting down the road. So that’s all I really have to say. If there’s any questions I can answer. Okay. Thank you. Is there anybody else? Before we close the meeting? I didn’t see him back there. Figure it out. Please come out and say good night to you guys.

01:33:56,530	But you know, this home occupation has to be one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard. I grew up in northern Minnesota, and there’s no such thing. Nobody tells you you can’t run your business. I mean, every logger in northern Minnesota has their skitters. Sheers. Trucks in their yard.

01:34:17,570	Why do you guys think you need to regulate whether somebody can make a living working from their house? That’s the smallest mindset minded bunch of crap. And we fought this at the city. I disagreed with it. There.

01:34:41,470	How are you protecting the public from anything? Saying somebody can’t park a bulldozer at their house? Is that bulldozer going to get up in the middle of the night and go push down the neighbor’s house or something magical? Or what’s the purpose? I mean, there’s no reason for these regulations. You guys should take your whole book of regulations, fire half of the zoning staff and start over. You aren’t protecting anybody.

01:34:57,130	You’re being tyrants. Chuck it and start over. That’s my opinion. Any more comments? One more time. Any more comments? Okay, now we will close the public hearing. Where do we go from here? Commissioners. Vice chair, if I may. Go ahead. Yeah.

01:35:34,870	The you know, I guess from what I’ve heard tonight is that, uh, I mean, I just my suggestion is that, you know, we’ve got the people that are moving from the ETA to the county are now under county jurisdiction.

01:35:51,930	So I, I to me, I would say what we have in front of us is basically the county ordinances with a bunch of things added to them from the city. I would propose that we fail, that get rid of, that allow these residents and landowners to operate under the county ordinances as is, and then address a couple of these points in our county ordinance that need to be addressed.

01:36:11,730	The things like the lot size, lot sizes allowed or lot size total lot sizes, a lot coverage maximums, uh, the landscaping guys concerned, I mean, it seems like there’s just a few things we need to change in the county ordinance to make this fit. And then even after that, you know, we always know that there’s a we have a variance process.

01:36:28,500	So if there’s things that then again, don’t fit, we can we can address them on a case by case through a variance process. So I guess that would be my suggestion to say, uh, you know, these people are now in the county. Let’s just use the county ordinance.

01:36:46,400	So you’re suggesting that we, uh, drop the city ordinances and and adopt the current suggested county ordinances and then work at, uh, changes as necessary. I would say fail what we have in front of us.

01:37:06,670	Uh, that down and then, uh, the whoever is used to be in the ETA and that falls into the county, just follows the county ordinances, and then us as a commission and the county commission can work on some of these small nuances and change the county regulations. Uh, working with them to potentially get rid of some regulations, modify some regulations.

01:37:28,600	But the pile of, uh, highlighted pieces in here that are the the city regulations that we’re trying to add is, uh, I, I would never I would never vote for that. Ever. Commissioner Conley yeah. Well, I, um, as far as the accessory, uh, building, because that was one of the joint portions. Um, we actually had our last city commission meeting.

01:37:52,600	Ours is, um, basically mirroring yours. It says on your sheet here on page 26 that it’s 1% for us. That’s actually been moved to 4%. So and it was meant to be the same as we try to, um, help each other out as far as the home occupation portion, like what the last two speakers were talking about.

01:38:17,200	Um, since special use permits, I’ve listened to all the Burleigh County meetings. That’s a thing. Um, even. Right, like next door to you, your property be and prior a lot of things go to, um, special use permits so that we’re not taking a step backward as we’re trying to

01:38:34,530	take a step forward. Is anybody living under those new provisions that their livelihood is not in jeopardy? Can they be grandfathered in based on that portion? And then the county stays the county ordinance like you’ve always had.

01:38:56,670	And as you’re growing into that new space, everything just goes to that special use permit until you figure out a better way. Any other comments? Uh, Commissioner. I guess I would just like to go back to the comment that I made in the beginning where we moved the transitional, uh, parcels under the current Burley County zoning ordinances, and we grandfather in existing properties like Tyson Austin’s,

01:39:23,330	um, uh, I forget the other Michael, uh, Kernodle where we grandfathered those properties in so that they are protected. Any further discussion? Commissioner Risch. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I think, um, Mitch mentioned that it would be very difficult if you grandfather, in these you say 4200 properties in perpetuity or whatever the case might be, that may.

01:39:55,270	Be out of compliance properties, just the properties where there’s. A I don’t know, I’d appreciate Mitch Mitch’s thoughts on that. Mister chair. Yes. We have to have some kind of documentation that that was approved in the first place. If it wasn’t approved by the city of Bismarck, it was out of compliance of their zoning.

01:40:17,270	So are we going to grandfather something that was out of compliance to begin with? The city of Bismarck has a home occupation, or that specifically applies to the EPA. You can look it up and everybody in the EPA should be able to follow that. Yeah.

01:40:36,000	I’m sorry I, I yes, there is it’s a 3% and three employees. That’s. Yeah. It’s already in there. They’ve adopted it last year I believe. But if you’re going to say grandfather all these properties and you’d have to review almost each individual properties to see that it does. It did at one time mean ordinances. Okay. Commissioner Bitner. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um.

01:41:01,530	You know, I think I agree with scrapping this whole concept and then addressing the things as that that particular thing. It seems a lot cleaner to me to to address the home occupation that exists under the city ordinance as compared to the county at the time. You know, at like another day.

01:41:25,670	I don’t think anybody is going to go out there and and suddenly if we if we just set this aside, nobody is going to go out there tomorrow and tell Tyson over there, you’re done. Right? That’s not going to happen. It’s just not. And I think, well, I sat through those meetings because that was the city planning commission.

01:41:49,070	And, um, you know, we got the message, I, I have run a business out of my property for 38 years and no problem. And so it’s not like I have an issue with that. And I could certainly see us, uh, making changes to the, to the county thing.

01:42:07,900	And I guess the reason I never bothered to change the county ordinance is because I didn’t have a problem. I was under the city. Right. But but we you know what I’m saying, right? Um, so, um, we I think that we we can just do away with a lot of the, the minutia and deal with the things that

01:42:26,070	really do matter, like the, the home occupation. There was a lot of people in the room, you know, there’s a lot of good conversation. Um, yeah. You know, that’s just my opinion. I don’t know how to put that in a motion, but. Mr. chair, if I can. Come on.

01:42:48,500	And I understand Mitch’s Mitch’s comment in a you grandfather, everybody. Everybody. Um. that’s a. Little tougher. We’re. Mr. Bitner makes a great point. We need. To take. These items one at a time. Like home occupations. and get that. Moved into our ordinance so that. Those folks. Are covered. But we’re not grandfathering. in everybody. Um. That grandfathering in everybody.

01:43:12,900	You don’t know what your grandfathering as as Mitch. Said. You’ve got to inspect every one of those properties to find out if they were done legally. We know the home occupations were the city’s held the, you know, the meetings. And that has been created.

01:43:31,070	And I don’t know how easy, Mitch, that would be just to move into our ordinance, take a meeting and a public hearing and so on and so forth. But I think that would be one of the first things we would want to put on the docket to make sure that that’s covered, because we have a lot of home occupations out there in the Oeta.

01:43:44,870	Well, Mister Chair, I thought I’d take some of the easy pickings here, some easy targets here. By starting with the residential districts. And I used two columns to compare the two differences between Burleigh County and City of Bismarck. Former, uh, ordinances. Now they are very similar.

01:44:06,400	Almost all of them, except that when they get into the larger the the higher density properties, like there are 10 or 15 and RR, um, are five, but they the idea is that the differences are especially some of the accessory dwelling units and accessory dwelling, but the accessory uses on their property, such as employees and um, a child care centers. Commissioner Butler.

01:44:31,370	Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And Mitch, I don’t I don’t think that that we as Burleigh county, outside the city limits want to encourage 15. 30. That’s not a point. Or anything like that because quite frankly, we don’t have the infrastructure. We don’t have the water and sewer.

01:44:48,570	We don’t have the fire control, you know, and so it makes no sense to me to even consider adding that because we don’t have it now. Right. And we’re not going to have it because we don’t have the infrastructure. So. Yeah. Understood.

01:45:07,330	I what I did just I highlighted each well I don’t know if I highlighted your packets, but they’re very, so very similar except for the higher density properties that we can cherry pick what you want out of those accessory. Uh, different uses that are allowed on each of the properties and add them to our zone.

01:45:28,530	And we’d keep an RR, R1, ours is basically R1, and R2 is all we have in the Burleigh County.. Commissioner. Kelly. Yeah. Um, since you mentioned the accessory dwelling units, um, we just went through that last year at this table as well. And that was a long process. Uh, the county was less stringent.

01:45:45,530	The city was really, really trying to say, if you built a house, you could only build it to 20ft. And then they gave you examples. We should be like Maple Grove or this community and that and 25ft. If you were going to add an alternative dwelling unit.

01:46:07,100	And I just brought up the fact that why not allow people to build to the 25ft so that it is equal with the county one. But if you already have that space in your house, if you’re taking care of grandma or grandpa or mom and dad, it’s easier to paint walls and have it existing than to take the top off of a house.

01:46:23,100	And and fortunately, the city commission agreed with me, and that was changed on A50 vote. So some of that works there. That does make sense. You mentioned it specifically. That was on purpose to make it consistent with what the county had. Um. Let’s go ahead. I just had a quick question for Mitch.

01:46:49,370	So when you’re talking about making some of these changes, are you talking about these changes just strictly being for the homes that were moved out of Oeta and into County? Well, we if you’re going to keep the Burleigh County zoning ordinance, the simple, just keep the R1 and R2.

01:47:07,500	Most likely we’ll never get into an AR ten and our 15 density, but the idea is to take some of these accessory uses of what the city had and put them into an R1 and R2, and that would be for the entire county.

01:47:27,600	We don’t allow I mean, we have nothing on ordinances, on on chickens, we have nothing on our order, nothing. Even in definitions of a home care center or a family care or a child care, which is all out in this. In mobile home parks, they’re allowed by right to have a child care center. There have up to 12 children in your home. That’s under the city.

01:47:46,770	Under the city. We don’t even have a definition. For I don’t want to have mobile home parks out there again. But what I’m saying is that we don’t even have a definition for child care.

01:48:06,000	Right? And so it’s the idea is that, I mean, I can on the next March meeting, I can bring just not the whole differences between the higher densities, but the accessible or accessory uses of these properties.

01:48:27,930	And see if we can adopt that into our R1 and R2, such as the home occupancy of having a three employees and chickens and all that stuff, and then and then family foster care that’s allowed in the city and our our one. And so I can bring that to the next meeting. We can go from there and keep the zoning simple. Keep it R1, R2. Oh, I just. Want. To keep it as simple. As possible. People. People don’t. We’re just tired of the the minutia, you know, and people people want to live their lives.

01:48:48,170	And I don’t want chickens regulated. Well, Bob has chickens and he lives right near me, so I don’t care about the chickens because I can get eggs if I need. Um. you know, I think that I don’t know how to put it into a motion, though.

01:49:09,530	Whether we even need one, if he’s going to return, based on what we’ve heard tonight, then we probably don’t need to do anything right now. But I would like to see us just scrap the majority of this and focus on the things that the public obviously cared about, based on comments.

01:49:32,470	Uh, vice chair, just a just if I could a comment, uh, that just so everyone is clear any any HOAs and those types of things that exist, even if you were an ETA and you moved to the county, uh, your host, uh, rules, regulations, those types of things are always going to be in addition to what we have.

01:49:49,130	So, uh, if there are, if there are things that you know, you don’t want in your HOAs, uh, make sure that you’re writing those things in there, because if it’s, uh, you can be more stringent than the county, um. So where do we go from here? Somebody want to make a motion? So, Mister Chair. Can I.

01:50:08,730	Yes. So if we just left it alone, and the people who have been moved into the county stay in the county, we know that the county staff doesn’t usually go looking for for trouble. So until something comes up, it can come back in front of the commission. That’s what we’re for.

01:50:30,770	Where if somebody wants to build something that’s a little bit different than what’s allowed in the ordinances, then it comes in front of the Planning and Zoning Commission, and we’re an advisory board for Burleigh County Commission. So then we can take a look at it. We can listen to the people. That’s what we’re here for, and that’s how we can settle out.

01:50:47,200	Um, problems like that. I don’t know if that makes sense. What happens is if we do something like that, then it goes on for several months before someone is able to actually do their building. You know, because they have to come here.

01:51:07,730	Then they got to wait for the next commission meeting to get on that commission and so forth. So I’m wondering if if that’s a if that’s going to be a reasonable timeline. Uh, we we heard from one of our people tonight that, uh, how long it took to get permits and stuff. So. Now commission. Mr.. Mr..

01:51:26,200	Vice chair, I just, uh, I guess if, you know, we’re kind of looking for a motion. We had a hearing. So we do we do have to take some action. And I guess I would move to deny the ordinance changes that are on the table presented to us. I have no proposed changes to these ordinances tonight.

01:51:47,470	My staff reports introduce the differences between our districts and the city of Bismarck and the county’s district. There’s no proposed changes. This is part of that continuation of that first hearing on the table right now.

01:52:06,200	Are no changes proposed? There are no chance that at that first hearing, we had the packet that had the all the highlighted items in it for change. Right. And that’s what I’m referring to. Okay. Sure. Okay. I think I know what you mean. We didn’t accept that. I would second the motion. We got a motion and a second, uh, further discussion on the motion. Commissioner. The reject the proposal from the last meeting, but I think we rejected that at the last meeting.

01:52:31,000	No, we continued. The public. We continued it. Okay, okay. Yeah. So., just for discussion, if, uh, the motion could be changed slightly, just so that, uh, the home occupation could have some security is, um, like we do on other motions and that, like, decisions with conditions is to, um, keep the motion and

01:52:58,570	then on the condition of the home occupation, give it a, I don’t know, six months or 12 month time frame in order to work on it so that those businesses can work under what they’re currently working under, if that makes sense. So there’s something in reading because our boards might change the structure between now and then. Commissioner.

01:53:24,800	Mr. Connelly, I think that’s a good, good piece. I would just want to make sure that we’re including everything that we want to have looked at. I mean, home occupation is one, but, uh, do you want to do you want to have it change to. Yes.

01:53:39,100	All the I mean, do we have a do we have a good list? I mean, I have about four things that I think have been brought up. Are there additional. There are. Pieces. Commissioner Bill. That’s a good question. Um, because in my mind, I think we need to do larger accessory buildings.

01:53:56,830	The 4000 square foot nowadays is simply not enough. Um, and so that would be the second thing on the list. The home, the home occupation and an accessory building size, I think is an important thing.

01:54:21,870	So if you want to add anything else to the list, if we’re going to be modifying the motion and if the original motion or is agreeable. So if you want to add, please do. I think on on top of that was it. So it was lot like accessory building coverage home occupation.

01:54:46,470	Uh, and then there was um, accessory uses or do we want to leave that out for now? I’m, I’m not clear on what you’re referring to because that would be a home occupation is an accessory use. Is that. Is it the same thing? I don’t know, that’s that’s kind of what I’m asking you. Alternative dwelling units. The same. Uh. Mr. Chair, the I he’s talking about the home occupations of of people doing their business out of their home. Yeah.

01:55:09,930	Whereas three employees and all that, um, there are great. There are two in the city currently. In the city, there’s two categories, major and minor. Minor are allowed by right. Major are special use. So there is it goes in more depth than what we’re talking about right here.

01:55:31,730	The minor I believe is up to three employees and 50% of the area. And so it’s, it’s I can bring to the next meeting. And we’re defined uh, allowances for these home occupancy patients. Yeah. But it’s I mean, it’s not just that. It’s it’s whether or not we we allow chickens on these properties.

01:55:53,400	I mean, that may seem small, but if you’re in a subdivision that has no chickens like Country View Estates, I can pretty much guarantee you there’s no chickens out there. Maybe there are, but I doubt it. So now we’re saying you can have them? No, I’m I’m not willing to make those changes at this point, but, um, okay.

01:56:13,000	So the ones that have chickens, they’re going to be grandfathered. Or is that on the list to work on over the next 12 months? Right. That’s probably in that category of accessory use. Yeah. That could be the accessory use. Yep. No. Because I think now now that I thought about it a minute.

01:56:32,670	Um, maybe the accessory use that he was referring to would be the granny flat or the. Yeah, right. Next to the. Commissioner Connolly brought up. Dwelling units. Accessory dwelling units. There you go. Yeah. So that would be like the third on the list. So, yeah.

01:56:53,470	I mean, the other things that I see that are big differences are family childcare that are allowed by. Right. And some residential. These districts, which is you can have four kids in your home babysit whatever. Then they also have child allowed in some of this by specialists. We don’t even have that in our ordinances. So I mean I can include that.

01:57:15,930	I see that’s a big change, a difference in Burley County, but it’s allowing people to do childcare in the properties. I don’t see any harm in including that to know, you know, people really, there’s not enough daycare. Nobody has enough daycare and it’s too expensive. So I don’t think we need to restrict daycare.

01:57:36,730	But we we’re getting to the point where, you know, that’s a really long motion, right? You’re right. I still think as the original motion, um, I would just rather just let’s, let’s, let’s fail this clean and then we can move on. And right after this in additional business, then we can bring up another motion that involves all that. That’s okay. Mister. Mister chairman. Yes.

01:58:00,170	Um, if, like Commissioner Agnew said, um, you can deny the changes that were presented at the last meeting and get that motion off the table. So all that’s clean slate. And then as the Planning and Zoning Board, you can direct staff to work on those ordinances until we get it.

01:58:26,930	And then that’s where our our motion wouldn’t be, including all this. You would get rid of it and then direct the staff. So the motion that we had the last meeting, do you have that motion? The motion at the last meeting was to continue. To continue. To continue. So we should be looking over what was at the last meeting to, um.

01:58:47,170	So so we should close that motion. Yeah. If we close the public hearing like you did tonight, we need to make a motion on it. We have to have action. Yeah. So we could just deny those changes completely, and then it will take care of that.

01:59:04,970	And then as the planning and Zoning Commission, you can direct staff to work on those changes. The 3 or 4 different things they had. We can work on ordinances for that and. Call the question. Put it out. on consent agenda. Questions have been called, um, all those, uh, you want to go ahead and do roll call, vote.

01:59:23,970	Okay. The motion is to deny the amendments from the January 14th public hearing. Um, Commissioner Munson. Yes. Commissioner. Jarrett. Yes. Commissioner. Conley. Yes, Commissioner. Bittner. Yes, Commissioner. Patrick. Yes. Commissioner. Rich. Yes, Commissioner. Smith. Yes. Commissioner. Stifle. Yes. Commissioner. Agnew. Yes. Okay. Motion passed. Okay.

02:00:01,330	So now I think the by consensus, we would direct staff. This would be up to you, Mr. Chairman, but we’ll direct staff to consider those things that we just discussed. I don’t think we need to line them out anymore. Right. And we all understand what? And they’ll come back at the next meeting and then with, with the changes to, to approve or disapprove.

02:00:21,070	Okay. You need any further clarification. Nope. Okay. So that brings us to the end of our agenda. I believe. No. No. Just consensus. We can we direct. It would be. The changes. Will be on the. Will be on the next consent. Agenda. We’re ready for you to look out for the public hearing. Yeah.

02:00:43,030	I just I just wanted to thank all the public that sat through that and then provided us input and the whole thing. I really appreciate. It. All right. Any other business? I don’t think there is. So a motion for adjournment. So