00:00:07,630	Ro ll call please Comm Langing Comm Huber here, Comm Mudder. Comm Horn Mayor Frelick here. Comm Infeldt. Comm McLean, here. Comm Smith. Comm Hammond Here Comm Gardner, here. Comm Renner here Chair Robinson, here. Next item is to consider the approval of the minutes from our July twenty-eighth meeting.

00:00:58,430	Do we have any changes We move to approve it Motion by Comm McLean, seconded by Comm Innfeld to approve the minutes of July 28th. Questions with nonrocavo, please Comm Huber Yes Missioner mutter. Yes. Mayor Frelick Yes Comm Infeld. Comm McLean? Yes. Comm Smith, Comm Hammond, Yes, Comm Gardner Yes. Comm Renner, Chair Robinson. Yes.

00:01:48,100	Minutes are approved. We’ll move on to the first of our public hearings Uh, first is consider a preliminary plat for Evergreen Heights’ 5th edition. Rachel. Good evening, Commissioners Can you hear me? OK, perfect. Um, OK, so this is a preliminary plot for Evergreen Heights Fifth edition. Um, this was tabled at the July meeting.

00:02:12,630	So your memo was fairly similar, um, but I’m gonna go over most of it again because we do have an updated plot um, and there were some changes made.

00:02:24,430	We’ve also got a lot of applicant information in here, um, that we didn’t have last time, and I know they’re in the room tonight, so I’ll do my best to explain it and then they may, they’ll probably have some comments. So, um, so this proposed preliminary plot is located north of 19th Street East. zoom in here Um and east of 14th Avenue, Southeast.

00:02:46,800	It’s a replat of the existing lots 2 through 6 of Evergreen Heights 2nd edition and of lot one, block one, Evergreen Heights, 4th edition in the southwest quarter of Section 35, Township 139 North Range 81 West, City of Mandan.

00:03:05,470	Um, so in general, the existing lots are, uh, lot owners are replatting and purchasing the lots essentially directly behind existing homes as well as vacating most of the right of way through the subdivision to the east. Um, all of the lots are zoned are 7.

00:03:21,600	You can see on the Future land use plan that it was contemplated that, um, those lots could be in the future land use plan as commercial, but they are all currently zoned as our 7. Um, the zoning map does not reflect that, but they are our 7. We did double check it. Um, so the total area of the plat is 4.43 acres. Um, the new proposed lots range from 45,126 square feet to 24,070 square feet.

00:03:45,630	um, the majority of the right of way for living water Drive, uh, which is the East West road. or sorry, North South Road on the east side of the subdivision, um, and 16th Street Southeast, which is on the north side of the subdivision. Um, our being assimilated into the newly reconfigured lots.

00:04:05,370	Um, those two streets were intended to provide access to lot one, block one of Evergreen Heights 4th edition, which was intended to be developed as residential properties. So access to existing lots is not changing as they will maintain access from 14th Avenue Southeast, the properties to the east will maintain their access as existing because neither takes access from living water Drive.

00:04:21,870	and the proposed Lot 6, which is on the bottom here, on the south side, uh, we’ll take access from 19th Street Southeast. Access currently between the existing lot one block one and lot 1, block 2’s.

00:04:38,970	OK, I’m going to take a second here and show you guys on this plot where these are, so this area right here where my cursor is, is the current lot one block one of Evergreen Heights. This is lot 1 Block 2 of Evergreen Heights 4th, and this is living water, uh, lot one block one of living water Edition. Um.

00:04:59,730	so that access is provided via 16th and Living Water Drive Um, so the proposed plot shows plotting that right of way partially into this proposed reply. You can see this here.

00:05:18,470	Um, so one of the reasons we had asked for the speech tabled in the July meeting was that we were uncertain about whether or not this was a valid way to vacate a right of way. Um, the Century code allows for um essentially, we, we, you can vacate right away via a plot, um, or you can vacate via the vacation process and half of the right of way goes to either side, right? So whichever property owners, it wasn’t entirely clear in this case because because all of

00:05:40,330	that right of way is being added into the new lots, whether this was a valid way to do it. So we’ve looked at it, um, both lot one, the the slot Lot 1, block 1, and lot 1 block 2 are owned by the same owner at the moment. So it is um, allowable for this area OK.

00:06:06,000	However, we do still have concerns. Sorry, I’m clicking the wrong buttons here. Um, we do self-concerns in this area. um, because we have concern that it does not appropriately vacate living Water Drive on the South 55.63 ft of proposed lot 3. So right here.

00:06:32,100	Um, lot 45, and 6 because part of living water Drive remains. So then if you were to go back and vacate it in the standard process, um, this, of this 33 ft, 16.5 would go to lots 345, and 6. and 16.5 ft would go to living water.

00:06:52,330	addition not one block one So um, we have offered a few solutions to this, including adding lot one block one, living water edition, choose the latte. Um, but at the moment, that is unresolved. So there is a, uh, moving on then to utilities and easements. There’s a water line along 16th Street Southeast from 14th to 1806. That’s showing up here.

00:07:11,630	Um, there is an easement, uh, shown there, and there is an associated fire hydrant just inside the right of way that is proposed to be vacated. Um, again, there’s an zone change request.

00:07:28,630	The city has raised concerns about whether or not this proposal is the highest and best use of these properties, given the general need for housing in the community. The applicants and representatives have provided development costs to build out living water drive and have provided information on possible sales in the past and have noted that the owners of the existing homes have expressed pretty strong opposition to development

00:07:44,900	behind their properties. Um so we did do uh letters to the Jason property owners as noted and required, um, the staff comments and updates needed are that we do need to still see like the previous lock configuration and old lot and block numbers, um, on the plot, that’s just a minor plot

00:08:02,900	comment. And then our staff items of concern are that leaving half of Living Water Drive is a public right of way is neither good planning or engineering practice, and it does leave some question of legality of vacating part of the right of way by plotting while leaving a remainder. to be vacated by some other format.

00:08:20,470	Um, vacating existing city right of way between developable properties is not typically considered to be desirable and removing developable plotted property from development potential is again not typically considered to be desirable. Um, the findings of fact for their preliminary plot. The plot does meet all technical plot requirements.

00:08:44,470	Um and the city staff recommendation is that the planning and zoning Commission review the materials provided by the applicant and staff, by future land use plans, zoning ordinances, and then modifying or accepting the staff’s findings of fact as necessary to support the motion of the board, and I can answer any questions that you might have. Questions for Rachel Rachel, um, sorry, Mr.

00:09:17,730	Comm Rachel, do you have, uh, or Mr. Chair, sorry, um. do you guys want more time to try to figure it out? I don’t know, like I get what you’re saying. Um, I also don’t like to either say yes or no without you guys getting on board and you’re not, you’re giving me a very political answer us reviewing.

00:09:40,170	So, what is your thoughts there? Uh, Chair, Commissioners, I think our, our thoughts there are that the applicant has asked us to move this forward, um, as they are under, um, some timelines with purchases, um, and so I, they do have a number of comments. I know that they are anxious to share with you.

00:10:00,170	I think there’s a lot in your packets that speaks to their thoughts on the the matter. We do, like I knowed have concern on the on on living water Dr drive and and that specific area. um I think one option could be reaching out to the city attorney at this point.

00:10:17,100	Like if it is approved, that we would just make sure that we’re meeting all legalities between preliminary and final plot, um, to make, to just double check that portion of the vacation, um, because as ordered this, it does make city staff a little on uncomfortable, uh, there, um every in like lots 1 and 2,

00:10:36,530	totally normal way to vacate the street, so, um, did that answer your question? OK. Rachel, you’ve got a question. So if 22 things that are just, uh, my concern is one, so would those lots be, they would be essentially be landlocked.

00:11:00,000	Is that true or not Um, Commissioners, no, they would not be landlocked. Um, they all would have access from 14th Avenue Southeast. So those lots are, I don’t, um, I don’t know if we can get the plot back up on the on the screen, but those are full lots.

00:11:16,070	So lot one is a large, like backwards L shape with a very um like wide north-south piece, um, lot 2 is a very deep lot. Lot 3 is a very deep lot. Lot 4 is a very deep plot. So there’s a, there’s easements running down the center of them. um for utility easements, but they are all, none of, none of these lots become landlocked.

00:11:37,470	They all have access 23 and 4 is living water still potentially, I mean, there, you could drive a vehicle through up to 2 from 14th, is that what you’re saying? Um is there a way to pull up the plot on the screen? Thank you. Um, OK, so, if we’re looking at this.

00:12:02,530	So 14th year for 2, goes all the way back. Oh, OK. I, I meant, I guess I was thinking of 19th, but so the only access to those lots is through the front yard of those homes. Well, this is, yeah, so they’ll all be one lot.

00:12:21,530	So it’s just that’s all long, long lots so they’re not separate parcel, yeah, this is one large, one large parcel. Um, this is one large parcel. I think on here the easement lines might be. zoom in a little further There we go. The easement lines are dashed in here, and so I think they look a little bit more like plotlines than they should.

00:12:40,470	um and then like 6 6 takes access from 19th. OK, that, that clears that up. OK, so then the other question I have is, in terms of, I, I know sometimes. there’s a concern about taxes and specials that I know one of the things I’ve heard in the past is.

00:13:08,170	I’ve had this staff tell me, I mean, I get 2 acres in the city and there’s always a complaint about, well, you’re taking more utilities to get to your, you know, around your land. Well, I just got hit with 20,000 specials like I’m like, well, I’m paying my fee for being a pig.

00:13:26,170	in the city, right? And so I mean, isn’t that, I mean, so I’m just being I guess this is going to, I mean all all all the utilities are in, but if there’s more in the future, say taxes and specials that are assessed to those properties and.

00:13:45,630	I guess it would be commensurate to the size of bigger lots and they’ll probably there’ll be more taxes and more specials. Is that, are they gonna will they have their fair share of the tax, I guess, in the future. Is that not a question for you or Chairing Comm, I don’t know that that’s quite a question for me.

00:14:01,700	I think it would depend on how the specials were decided at the time of a project. Um I’m just thinking of just addressing somebody’s concern that that you’re making bigger city lots. So now you know that the rest of the city has to pull that extra burden because they have bigger lots and you could have put more people in that space.

00:14:24,170	but so if someone has some, that’s a concern I have, I guess in general. Uh, Mr. Chair, I, I have a question. Uh, just for clarification on the south part on living water drive is the Platte boundary extended half into that. Chairing Comm, yes, so what’s remaining of Living Water Drive shown on the plot is 33 ft wide.

00:14:49,070	So 33 ft of it, which is what would be the vacated portion if you were to vacate it via the traditional process would be going into these lots. Um, so we’re, we’re really looking at a technicality, legal technicality here basically. Yeah. Cause the other 33 feet’s gonna go too.

00:15:08,070	living water edition there Yes, so, um, Chairing Commissioners, the one of the solutions that we have talked with the applicant about is removing living water drive. Um, at least south of this point from the Platte because then it could go through the traditional vacation process and be split evenly.

00:15:36,800	Right now, if it’s if it’s vacated this way, it that south portion doesn’t end up going to Living Water Drive. If they went back and went through the vacation process. Any other questions Mr.

00:16:03,330	Chair, I guess one other question, um, what would be the ordinance with regard to if any of these property owners wanted to add a, you know, patio home or uh, uh, a second structure on the lot, um with regard to these large lots. Sharon Krishner, I would have to get back to you on that. I do not have the R7 ordinance memorized yet. I’ll get there.

00:16:30,000	Apologize A Robinson, Rachel would it be is, is there a reason that living Wa Drive there doesn’t. isn’t being considered part of this. I mean, if you’re saying it’s easier to vacate the whole thing, have we reached out to Living Water to see if we can vacate the whole thing at one time.

00:16:49,170	Chair and Comm, um, we have offered that as also an option to the applicant, um, but it would have to then include the lot one block one living water edition would have to be included in the plot. Um, so we have mentioned that as an option for them. is not interested I’m not sure. Any other questions One more, Mr.

00:17:14,270	Chair, and just, and maybe this is more for the, um, applicant, but just wanted to understand if we’re just talking about expiration of purchase agreements, if those could be extended, but maybe that’s more of a question for the applicant than Rachel, he had nodding. OK. Thank you.

00:17:39,330	Thank you Uh, this time I’ll open up for public comments or questions, uh. comments that we’re discussing item number one. Hello, uh, hem remem uh remember me from last month, uh, my name is Ben Capel, so I am an owner there and I’m also the real estate agent representing all of the purchasers for this deal.

00:18:00,330	Uh, we started this way back in February, so it’s been, it’s been a long process Uh, first, just a quick note, um, on especially on the contract side of things. P purchase agreements are very complicated in this process. So we’ve we used our Mum Mulligan. Ourm Mulligan was last month because we didn’t get the plat in in time, um.

00:18:17,000	so today it really needs to be either a yes or a no. So a yes, we’re contractably obligated to extend, uh, if it’s a no, fine, contracts are void earnest money goes back to the purchaser and we’re talking about a very substantial amount of earnest money, but like a maybe in another delay will put

00:18:33,330	us in a breach of contract, which is just a contractual nightmare where basically both parties could sue for damages, uh, so. people are putting their lives on hold for this actually. So say one person in the middle decides to back out because they are moving on with their life and um.

00:18:48,800	now is Val going to continue to sell with one person in the middle, not wanting to do this, um, yeah, so it can get very tricky if we just do another delay. So my, uh, hope is that you vote yesterday, obviously.

00:19:02,800	If it’s not a yes, honestly, uh no is better than a cancel or a delay at this point. Um, then we don’t run into going into small claims court fighting over earnest money. Uh, so, uh, with that, uh, continue on a little bit. Uh, we did talk about highest and best use of the land.

00:19:19,270	I did take some drone shots uh just so you can see what we’re talking about because the land, you know, we have a giant hill in the middle and two big drainage valleys on the outside. Uh, on the north end, uh, right behind, we got some shop condos. That’s actually, I’m on the north end there, they’re right behind my house.

00:19:33,630	Uh, they started building like a month after I moved in. I think they’re too close for me personally. I can’t imagine a purchaser wanting to spend a ton of money on a lot that is going to have uh shop condos in their front yard.

00:19:47,100	If you go to one of those pictures, I put what their front yard view would be. and then their backyard view, um, it’s a big hill, so you’re gonna have houses right on top of you, so it might be a quarter acre lot that could be highest and best to be built on, but I can’t imagine anybody wanting to pay the kind of

00:20:02,000	money it’s going to take to develop that for a lot that’s gonna really feel small. Um, so I encourage you to look at the photos there, um. yeah, uh, uh, the, uh, the numbers for development of this for 8 lots was put in the packet, so you can look at that, you know, we’re close to a million

00:20:18,470	dollars. Every developer I know wants to double their money on a project anyways, so we’re talking 200 $300,000 for, for a lot that I don’t think has the appeal to bring that kind of money in.

00:20:31,870	So my push is highest and best use is definitely just to let us absorb that back lot, merge it into our, our, our properties. and that also brings a really nice buffer zone between residential and commercial. Because you have commercial behind us, um, this just is, is a nice buffer zone between, uh, to make it a little bit of a wider angle.

00:20:48,430	Like I mentioned, yeah, the, the shop condos do feel close, um, I believe Val actually has uh the ability to build a second one even closer to these lots. So the one picture that shows them, I think you can go one more farther. I’m, I’m not sure. I think that was just mentioned.

00:21:04,530	I had no idea that that was even an option. So that would deter somebody even further from purchasing and wanting to build a home there. um and then a couple quick notes, there is an access easement back through the back so you can, I mean, it’s just a big field is all we’re talking about.

00:21:19,000	You can drive back there pretty much anyway, uh, all their neighbors know each other, so you want to go back and work on your garden, just drive back there. But there is an access easement built into the plat for that.

00:21:34,730	So we’re covered there Um, use, you know, it was R7 before this, it’s R7 after this, so nothing’s changing there. The rules still apply. Uh, it got brought up in a meeting a couple of weeks ago, especially for my locks.

00:21:48,430	I’m gonna have the biggest lot, um, that the 40% rule so I could build a gigantic shop back there if I want to, um, but you could build a big house back there too, I guess, but nobody has any plans to build any garages, honestly, I can’t afford it after this purchase. Uh, all we wanna do is plant a ton of trees because nobody wants to look at these shop condos right behind our houses.

00:22:02,070	So our plan is my plan and my neighbor’s plan, I definitely know it’s just to plant more trees back there. So nothing is changing from what it was zoned before to what it was after, um.

00:22:17,170	I also don’t want to restrict anybody’s right to their property, you know, it’s your property, you own it, you could be able to do it whatever you wish to it, um but the rules that were before this still apply after this. Um, that’s not changing. Um, it got brought up to the size of the lots for the area, um, there are several, like if you just go straight south of us, uh, still on 14th Street, there’s 2 acre lots, there’s 1.

00:22:34,170	5 lots, there’s plenty of them down there. We’re on the edge of town there, so this type of thing isn’t, I wanna say uncommon for the area. um, and I, yeah, a quick note on the specials. I’m not an expert on specials, but, you know, they cover sidewaling gutters and and things like that.

00:22:49,270	We’re not, we’re not making the front of our houses any wider, so we’d still be responsible for whatever is assessed on our frontage road, um, if we do take care of this, we, if this moves forward, basically there’ll be nothing else going behind our houses, so there would be no future projects.

00:23:05,100	If somebody wanted to, you know, trench an electrical line that’s on their cost anyways. But I can’t imagine the city would take any type of cost, increased cost for that, um. so, um, yeah, I can’t believe removing this road is the biggest problem.

00:23:24,870	This road, it’s an imaginary road that was just put in recently, not that long ago, um, and that’s the biggest hurdle is to to get rid of this living water Dr drive road. Um, this plot we’ve agreed to by the purchaser and the seller. This is what we came to terms on and the purchase agreements, um, so this is what we want to push forward with, I guess.

00:23:39,470	Like I said, we used our m Mulligan, so contracts expire Friday, um, like I said, it’s easy if it’s a yes, it’s an easy where, where you have to extend, we’re gonna keep forward. We’ll get this deal done. Uh, if it’s a no, contracts are void.

00:23:51,600	If it’s a maybe you throw us kind of in a a pit of uncertainty, especially, you know, it’s like I’m trying to herd cats together at this point. It’s, it’s difficult to keep everybody together for um 889 months or whatever we are on working on this negotiating this deal.

00:24:07,730	So, uh, I would like to stand for any questions you may have, uh, otherwise. I’ll get out of your hair As a realtor, did you have any discussions with, uh, Living water? The church, um, the seller’s agent did talk to them, and she, she can speak to that after me about the church and their willingness to help us in

00:24:25,800	any way we need. um. Any questions Comm Comm, he said the road was just been updated the um the new role there. Do you know what year that was planned? I have a feeling somebody will be able to answer that after me.

00:24:59,530	um Thank you All right, thank you Uh, I just had one question, Chair, uh, so it’s Ben, right? Ben. So the, on the, what is the size of that axisro again? Do you, it’s a standard access 20 ft wide. It’s whatever was, you know, standard, that’s our access easement.

00:25:18,530	That’s kind of like an alley to get back, like if you wanted to have a shot back there or well, like for me, I’m literally buying this to park my camper back there. So everybody’s got an ability to get back behind their lots. We made that clear, uh that was concern between the neighbors getting together is, hey, especially the ones in the middle, like you absolutely, you can come back, come back through there. Thank you.

00:25:38,870	Mucharz, my name is Tricia Dietz. I’m a real estate agent representing Bell Renner, um, in the sale of, of these properties. Um, Val and I met, um, probably about 2 years ago now, um, through kind of a mutual, you know, understanding how our real estate agents meet their clients, it’s a thing.

00:25:55,900	Um, at any rate, we, he had approached me about selling these, these lots, so we have been, um, we, we brought these, this essentially this lot to market in January of 2024, um, so just speaking directly to kind of, you know, the timeline and all of this.

00:26:13,530	I know that there was a question on when this, when this road came in and, and I, the engineer, I think will follow me in in this conversation but this was, I mean, a relatively recent discussion at that point. And actually, actually, now that I’m, you know, replaying this too, um, we were still waiting on the final pla.

00:26:30,600	at the time of listing. So I mean, and January of 2024, this, you know, this Platt revision to, to create these living water drive what I consider the living water drive lots was very, very recent at that point because we were still waiting for the final, final plot in the initiation of the part of the,

00:26:46,100	uh, listing agreement. So 2 years, um, essentially at this point now on the market, um, and, and just, you know, when we discussed specifically about highest and best use for these properties while I’m, you know. I, I also am in real estate.

00:27:01,800	I think several of us in this room are, um, and obviously have the best interests of the city. I have had more comments on just the feasibility of the affordability in creating you know, individual.

00:27:22,070	um, single family lots for this just based off of of the cost of excavation and the cost of putting in a road and, and, and the fact that that’s only split out essentially between 8 properties with this R7 zoning in this. Speaking directly to the road, um the, the, the road Living Water Drive has only was only to benefit the eight houses.

00:27:43,270	potentially that we’re going to go in these, in these lots when he had, this was before I had kind of gotten, gotten involved, but, um, as he was, you know, kind of moving through all of this, there was a lot of opposition from the neighbors on anything going back there.

00:27:56,170	And so this was kind of the settlement point of like, I mean, at that point, we didn’t have a Ben involved and so we couldn’t get all of, again, that was before me but couldn’t get all of the neighbors on board to, to come up with such a solution, but there was much opposition about anything going behind these homes, um, and that was kind of the, the settlement based, you know there so at any rate, the

00:28:10,630	living water Dr drive was only to benefit those 8 homes. Um, Val’s commercial lots, like I said to the, to the east, and actually he owns property to the north of that too, and then Living Water Drive has was never going to benefit in any way from this road, from the get-go, Living Wa Dr drive.

00:28:26,500	I, I personally have spoken to, um, I’m not remembering his name at this, at this moment, but the director of the church, the person involved, um, with Living Water Church there and he um, what I was trying to do in my initial conversation with him is I was trying to see um if he actually wanted to

00:28:41,900	purchase what is now lot 6, just so that we could kind of finish putting this deal together at the time and he wasn’t interested in that. He, we had talked quite in length actually about the road and about the process and how he was, you know, kind of doing it to help Val get done what he

00:28:55,800	needed to get done so that he could get a shop condos built, um, and he’s, he has no preference yeah or nay on what happens to, to Living Water Drive.

00:29:11,870	I mean, he just, he just was offering it up as, as a way to, um, you know, move, move this process along for Val at the, at that moment, so, um, yeah, as far as you know, continuing to vacate that, I mean, I, I think that that, that is continuing, if that is continuing to be a discussion, we’d only, you know, really kind of learned that that was as much of a technicality issue

00:29:26,900	as it was, you know, here in the last couple of weeks. And so, um in continued discussion with them, we definitely can continue to, you know, continue to vacate that road, um, again, it’s just a timeline, a timeline thing, and we, we have time even after, you know, after we hopefully get an

00:29:44,370	approval on this today. We definitely have time to, to continue that process but as we move into closing, um, so that we can get all of that squared away with the final plot that would be.

00:30:02,630	accepted as of closing, so um, with that, I don’t think I, of course, had, you know, some comments, um, in your packet in front of you as well, so, um, with that if you have any additional questions, I am happy to answer. I don’t know that I missed anything, so. Any questions? Sure.

00:30:21,470	What’s your date? What’s your, you still have to go before the commission besides us, is that still in your timeline or how tight are you? currently expire Friday. To continue to move forward and that’s the biggest piece. I mean, that’s the biggest piece here is just this is kind of our our next big hurdle as long as we can, you know, continue to see progress in all of this.

00:30:41,700	we have agreeance on on all. sides there. OK Mr. Chair, just for clarification, did I understand that there is not a buyer then for Lot 6 currently? Val continues ownership of Lot 6 and we’ll have to market that separately.

00:31:06,100	So that maybe just would bring up the concern about vacating that, um, that right away behind lot 6 because they probably don’t want to provide access off of 19th Street, being it’s a major arterial. Given the fact that it was left to be one. There was some discussion with the city.

00:31:26,000	We had actually approached the city before we even had all of these contracts in place. Ben and I started this discussion, like I said, or like you said in in February and at that point, Val and I and Greg had actually sat down with, um, would have been Jarek and Andrew at the city to kind of figure out how do we make

00:31:38,230	this work? How do we, how do we bring all of, you know, we have a ready and willing, we have 5 ready willing buyers or for, uh, ready and willing buyers.

00:31:50,270	and, and a ready and willing seller and, and how do we put this together and how do we make this work and what do we do with these last two lots. The biggest thing with all of this and, and, and the part that we worked really hard to, to really accomplish is making sure that there was no lots in the middle.

00:32:02,100	We have all of the buyers lined up so that we have all of these and none of these do get landlocked because from a real estate standpoint, as, as representing the seller in the situation, you can understand that that is also my concern. I can’t sell a lot that you can’t get to.

00:32:15,230	So when we, when we brought this together, we brought, you know, lot 6 as as one lot so that we could have that access and ability there um there was some discussion on different ways to, you know, how do we, what’s the kind of the best use for for that lot and it was continuing

00:32:30,800	with, with our 7 with that access, um, off of 19th is a very plausibly built lot and probably a very desired lot once I’m able to market it as such. um, and I never mind, I had lost a train of thought there.

00:32:59,900	Any other questions Thank you Uh, one question, um, going back to the, uh, Living Water Drive, if the Platte was revised to exclude that 33 ft. How’s that going to impact your purchase agreements because if it was vacated they’d ultimately get 33 ft.

00:33:24,000	from the vacation Um, to my understanding and maybe I can reference Greg that 33 ft was always, the 33 ft that’s still there was always living water drives. So. Right, but you’re vacating, attempting to vacate the other 33 ft. I might have to reference Greg on that, the engineer. Chair Comm, uh, the idea with the latte was, would be to absorb that 33 ft. and that’s part of the planning process to.

00:33:52,170	uh, basically kinda wipe the slate clear and uh kind of clean up those areas, so so that was, that was the intent for that 33 ft to be part of the Replat another 33 ft, which was uh Liping water or. part of the church’s property originally. that could have just stayed.

00:34:13,730	uh, as, as right away they can continue to use it as they are, you know, at this point, but. uh, but the desire has been to uh. go through a vacation process on that part, so.

00:34:34,370	I think that’s the issue is whether or not you can legally vacate sort of a a public right away through the plot. I know you can through the whole thing if you have both sides sign off, but we don’t have that here, and you, we’re attempting to vacate part of a right of way and included within. And that’s, that’s the, the legal issue.

00:34:49,270	and my concern is if it gets approved and then it turns out to be. that it was an improper way to vacate that. Then your whole plat is invalid, and that’s gonna impact your purchase agreements as well, I would think. So I, and I’m trying to think of a solution. where we can somehow approve this, but you come back.

00:35:12,330	for the final plat and perhaps amended that right of way out and then go through the process to vacate that. the entire right away. Uh, so I think one of the routes we’re looking at is if this can be approved. uh, in the form that it is, and with it contingent on a vacation.

00:35:38,370	uh process moving forward. parallel with this so that it can all be done. simultaneously through the meetings so that we can vacate that and then have the plat. um, you know, approved right with it. at that same point so you know. probably some juggling in there a little bit, but the goal is to keep everything moving together at the same.

00:36:01,370	same pace, uh same meeting, so everything, uh, gets completed at the same time. So at that appears to be probably the cleanest way to keep the contracts valid uh, to get the vacation taken care of and get the, you know, plat completed.

00:36:27,530	Which, which at this point to, to add to that as well at at this point, Val Renner still, still owns you know, the proposed 6 his portion of this because of course this is a preliminary plot and even the purchase agreements and everything in place where everything is kind of moving very much so in parallel with all of this, um, so to have

00:36:44,100	title involved to to bring all of these together. you know, um, Val still owns all of this portion, so it’s just sim I mean simply a conversation with with Val and the director of the the responsible party at Living Water Living Water Church, so to have those run very parallel.

00:37:01,070	and all of the things we already have, you know, Val doing and all of this is. it seems very seamless to continue, you know, to continue those conversations and make sure that it’s all done, um in, in the fashion as, as desired.

00:37:24,000	Any other questions So I don’t know if we caught your name for the record, if you could state that, please? Sorry, uh, chair, Comm, uh, Greg Feaser, uh, engineer for Bell Renner. OK, thank you. Um a question, but I don’t know who would actually answer it.

00:37:44,470	Is there the vacating of the right of way of the drive appears to be the main hang up right here if it’s going to be legal or not. Is there any way that being, is there any way that that can come out of the plat, leave the right of way there, sell the lots that are that are there, and then work on vacating it later.

00:38:01,070	if you know, you follow what I’m saying. If a Guy leaves at 33 ft all the way from 19th to down to 16th Street, Leve that right away actually in place and continue on with the sale of the lots.

00:38:21,370	to the homeowners that want to buy them, can you come back later, invite Kate that right away? Uh, I think from a technical standpoint, that would be fine. Um. Ben, does that create some issues with that because nobody wants the road they’re not gonna continue forward. Yeah, sure. So, so that leaves it there and then they all have to participate in the vacation.

00:38:42,100	Well, but if the, if the homeowners could potentially lose the ability to purchase this property, wouldn’t it be worth trying to figure out. I mean, you obviously are, are working together with Val on this anyway, and you’re the parties that are involved, Living water is the only one that’s not here tonight, I don’t believe.

00:38:59,100	It, I’m, I’m just trying to figure out a way also to continue on with this without it turning into a nightmare. And if, and if a Guy can come back at a separate date and vacate those properties where they end up going back to the purchasers anyway. Maybe you can continue on that way. So one of the biggest fears with purchasing this is that road going in.

00:39:16,700	That’s one of the main reasons to purchase it is to eliminate that option that there’s going to be a road back there. Um, so yeah, I, I think there’s gonna be some backlash for sure if we went on with the purchase and you, they kept that road technically there. Uh, it’s kind of an unknown.

00:39:32,270	But Val was in control of that road basically because he owns lot 6. If he decides not to do anything with that. before it’s vacated, you can’t put a road there anyway. I guess I don’t, I don’t, I can’t, uh, I can’t speak to that.

00:39:49,430	All I can speak about is this design here today has everybody signed off, uh, for the purchasers. That’s all I can really say about, about that. Anything new or any changes would have to go back to all the buyers and to see if they would want to continue on.

00:40:01,800	And it’s been said, you know, I think this has been trying to go on for about 10 years and much longer than I’ve lived here. Oh, we should keep, we should have done this years ago, you know, kind of thing.

00:40:15,600	Um, but all this discussion about basically how this land will never get developed because it’s unsuitable, then I’m gonna get the, why are we even buying this? Because they’re never going to build behind us. So why do we even continue to go forward? I’m definitely going to get that answer back, um, especially with all the discussion.

00:40:30,430	and the cost analysis of how much it’s going to cost and just the general unfeasible ability of putting in this road for 8 houses. So there’s gonna be, there’s gonna be some backlash there for sure. So hopefully that answers that up.

00:40:48,870	Ben, hold on, Ben Yeah, so, uh, how many times have I had tweaked this contract already? Have you had to tweak it at all? Actually, no, it’s pretty, uh, it’s kind of, no, it’s, it’s written very well, it’s very long, but it’s written very well, um. so no, we haven’t tweaked it once.

00:41:04,630	This will be the first, uh, depending on what happens tonight, we’ll, we’ll, uh, this will be the first addendum to the contracts to extend and would have, so you hadn’t had to adjust any timelines at all. So you, this was the initial, yeah we’re still on the initial purchase agreements and or addends of the of the contracts. Thanks, yep. Thank you.

00:41:33,000	Questions Uh so I, I guess to the uh to the right of way part and trying to balance everyone’s concerns and, uh, desires from the buyers, sellers, uh, commission standpoint, you know, I, I think or I’m hoping that, you know, an approval with the contingency that the vacation is completed with, you know, the plat moving forward um, you know, and if that vacation stops, then the latte stops everything. uh is done at that point.

00:42:00,600	So, um, but every indication is that uh all parties are in favor of proceeding with the vacation, so I feel that that could be moved along, uh, together with it, uh. uh, you know, to get through this process, so. um uh I, I know you’d asked a little bit on some of the timelines on the road.

00:42:25,870	um, so I think to what Tricia had mentioned, uh, the portion that Bell had owned, uh, was plaited in 2023, finalized in 2024 at the very beginning of the year and then, uh, the half with Living Water Drive, I wasn’t able to look that up here.

00:42:44,330	I wasn’t involved in that platform, but I believe that was done 2 or 3 years prior. What? 0, 2012, even so a little bit while, a little while longer. I was thinking more I went to church was built, so. later, but um Mr.

00:43:05,170	Chair, I don’t know that our city engineer is here this evening, but I don’t know if anybody could speak to whether access could even be provided to Lot 6 off of 19th Street. Um, so yes, uh, to kind of follow up on that discussion a little bit from what Tricia had mentioned, mentioned.

00:43:26,600	uh, we had looked at actually splitting lot 6 into two lots and pushing that Living Water Drive north and we’d end up with a cul-de-sac in there. and so we have a short stretch of street, uh, to service those lots, uh, public works, engineering, they really were not interested in doing a partial street in here, uh, to try to make that work and they felt since we’re eliminating the access of living water Drive, having just a

00:43:47,370	residential access would be acceptable there in 19th. Any other questions Thank you. Thank you. Again, we’re taking comments or questions on item number one Make this quick and uh my name’s Mike Sullivan. Um, I own, uh 1616 14th Avenue Southeast so just off of 14th and 16th and Val and Mary were really good to work with.

00:44:29,730	I gotta say that, um. just two questions I guess, um. she mentioned uh, a fire hydrant that was going to be removed. potentially No OK I excuse me on that and um my apologies for not coming to the first meeting, uh, prior engagement but um if everything’s gonna stay R 7.

00:44:56,270	single family no concern there, um, just. this future land use map was a little bit confusing. Primary looks like it might be so. potentially commercial so just a note there, so I’ll sit down and I’m not sure what year that the land use, what, what, uh, do you know what year that

00:45:21,070	study published that? it was 2015. And I think the changes since then, the zoning map is off too. It says it’s agg, not R7, but we did find documentation that it had switched to R7. So I think it’s pretty clearly residential.

00:45:42,370	And sorry, Chair Comm, would you like me to address the fire hydrant question. No, that, that’s what I was looking for. Chair, maybe before we get out of public hearing, I’m trying to figure out a way. I, and I don’t know your contract, Ben, so I don’t, that’s where I’m at. Like I’m trying to figure out what contingency.

00:46:16,330	you wrote the contract. It’s lengthy. I know how it is. I’m assuming it’s a kind of a commercial contract, right? It’s not our typical standard purchase agreement, it’s just added with a ton of additional provisions that rented off into that what I’m trying to do like what can I get to make you still the

00:46:31,800	contractly obligated with a contingency here to move this forward. We’ll fix whatever we need to fix in the next coming weeks, weeks for this road vacation. Yeah, I know, um yeah, everybody wants it today, tomorrow, everything can change. So it’s on a standard contract.

00:46:51,000	Is there anything else in there that I need to know with As long as you have something moving forward, you’re gonna, you’re still contractly obligated is what you’re saying. Yes, yep. whichever way it basically comes down to your approval, so if, if you don’t have your approval by the end date, that’s it.

00:47:06,600	Then, then that puts us in a breach though, I guess, instead of a uh if you, if you move it forward and you have a ya vote, then, then yes, we’re obligated to extend. Um, no, obviously contracts are void. And if we put a contingency on our move forward? Yes, that’s fine.

00:47:22,530	That’s a, that’s a preliminary moving forward, yep, then we would all uh have to extend extend. So yeah, if this was all, all contingent on, you know, fixing this road nonsense, um, not nonsense, but the, the, the other part of the road, we would still be moving forward. OK, thanks.

00:47:40,630	But yet again, um, somebody could back out at any time, you know, you’re trying to hold like herding cats. There’s, there’s always somebody that could drop out and at any moment. I totally get it. Yeah, I get it.

00:47:58,270	So, Comm McLean, what’s, what would be your, I, I guess maybe it’s just not clear for me, but what, what resistance do you have for approval? I think I, I’m the legal part bothers me a little bit, making sure we vacate that road properly, so we have to have some sort of contingency in there for that.

00:48:18,170	I just don’t know what that looks like yet And I would think as a buyer, uh, with that hanging in the air, you’d think you’d be concerned with that also. Uh yeah. Yes And this is probably already been addressed. I’m Del Nardello. I live on one of the blocks. I did not buy a lot, but my concern is it’s lots that that they’re buying is they’re gonna have to be a a a gravel access road.

00:48:50,070	back there that I’m gonna be assessed for specialists. That’s my concern now OK OK And, and that’s, that’s what I wanted to address. Thank you. Anyone else on item number one? I’ll make one last call With none. I’ll close public hearing. Returned it to the commission.

00:49:31,730	Ah, Mister Chair, I, I still have, um, I think there is a legal issue with uh the way we’re vacating the plot, but I think that can be corrected. and um I guess if that’s all I’m going to say, but I, I, I’ll do emotion if. unless there’s any other comments. OK, we’re all jumping in, we’re all jumping in, but OK, fine. Yeah. All right.

00:50:00,000	I’ll move, uh, to recommend approval of the preliminary plot for the Evergreen Fifth editions contingent on final pla approvals which also established the complete vacation of Living Water Drive. I’ll second that motion Well, motion by Comm Smith, seconded by Comm Mudder of Renner.

00:50:49,800	um uh, motion is to, uh, recommend approval of the preliminary platform for the Evergreen fifth edition contingent on Final Plat approvals and which also includes the establishment of complete vacation of living water Dr drive. Mister Chair, Rachel, are, are you good with that? I feel bad for Rachel. This is getting dumped into this one. uh, er Comm, I think that that probably accomplishes that.

00:51:13,730	It allows them the ability to move forward with this current plot, um. while requiring that we do adequately take care of the living water drive issue, um, whether that’s that they, uh, remove that 33 ft in the final plat, or they go through the vacation process, um, simultaneously and don’t come in with the final plot

00:51:33,470	until they are at the end of the vacation process. Um, so I, I think it could work. There’s probably, there’s gonna be some small changes to the plat either way, but I think it could work. It’s broad timeline wise, like. they’re gonna want to know something, so I’m because of the contract.

00:51:55,330	When’s the next Ccom Commission meeting? When would this go in front of the city? Second The 2nd meeting in September for the final plot. Um, and the vacation process is, uh, requires 4 weeks, I believe, 30 days or 4 weeks of advertisement.

00:52:21,370	Um I apologize, I can’t do that math off the top of my head. I but I’m guessing that by the time they get back to, I mean, it would really, it would have to be done by final plot, right? So the earliest they could get back onto the planning and zoning Commission agenda for final plot would be September, end of September.

00:52:39,230	which theoretically they would could be halfway through the vacation advertisement process by that point, or all the way through it, depending on when we start that process and when they apply for it, I guess, right? Unless it goes to planning commission in September. I’d have to, I’m sorry, I didn’t have that.

00:52:55,630	I just want a little bit of discussion on timelines because I’m guessing they’re going to want to know that anyway. So, yes. OK. Yeah. My guess would be 6 weeks to 2 months. But that’s about what it would take anyway to get throughinlo. so OK. Thank you Any other comments or questions We have a motion in second.

00:53:20,270	Do I need to repeat or clarify the motion? Uh, motion is to recommend approval of the preliminary platt for the evergreen 5th edition contingent on Final Pla approvals, and also establish complete vacation of living water. Drive No, that’s fine Rocavo, please Comm Huber Yes, Comm Mudder, yes. Mayor Frelich Yes Comm Eveldt. Yes. Comm McLean. Yes. Comm Smith? Yes.

00:54:07,730	Comm Hammond. Yes, Comm Gardner. Comm Renner, Chair Robinson? Yes. motion is passed Second public hearing. Consider a preliminary platform for titleelfart. Selfartterisce, 5th edition, and a zone change from our 7 to R32 and R7. Rachel.

00:54:45,230	So tell us here, um, OK, I am going to start this by saying, we’re going to request tablingness with the applicant’s full uh what’s the word? Coordination, cooperation on this one. so I can talk about it if you’d like me to, um, but essentially this plat, I’ll show you the map, is directly to the down to the map that I’m looking for.

00:55:08,270	Um, directly to the west of the Clover Grove PUD, um, that was approved, uh, like a couple of months ago. I can’t remember if that was last month or not. Um, and we have a city staff requested that the two properties work in coordination with one another to provide secondary access to both properties as neither property would be able to develop the final phases without that secondary access.

00:55:32,230	across the boundary line. Um, and so they are working on that, um, and so we are going to request that this be tabled to next month, uh, when, uh, Clover Grove did turn in their preliminary plot on Friday. And so hopefully we’ll come back to you with both of them at the same time.

00:55:49,730	We can review everything all at once. That’s the goal. So I do believe this was advertised for a public hearing though, so, um, just a heads up on that one that you may need to hold that stuff. Um, and I can answer any questions. I can go through the whole thing if you’d like me to.

00:56:03,800	It’s up to you. Questions for Rachel Thank you It is a public hearing, so, uh, with that, I’ll open it up. Any questions or comments on, uh, public hearing number 2 Good evening, Comm, um, Chair and Comm Ebe Ballmer with Independent Land Surveying and Engineering, um, we’ve had multiple meetings

00:56:32,630	with the city staff on this project and I come to enough meetings where I know enough about Clover Grove as well, um. Clover Grove to do their secondary or second phase of their project does need a secondary access for this first phase, what we’re proposing right now, we would not need a

00:56:50,730	secondary access, but for a future phase for another 80 acres to the southwest that my client does own a secondary access, another secondary access would be required.

00:57:08,170	So that was brought to our attention here in the last couple of weeks with, with, uh, city staff meetings, um, and, and I have. some concepts, but we’re kind of trying to figure those out where the right location for the road is. Obviously we would add some lots going down that hill to the east, that sort of thing, I mean, I can show you a concept if you want to see something tonight.

00:57:25,270	I have no problem showing that right now. Just know that it’s a concept, it’s not part of the preliminary plot since we’re we’re requesting to table it to figure this out for the next couple of weeks so we can get something figured out for the next month’s meeting.

00:57:43,900	I guess to look at a concept, uh, that could change by next meeting. I don’t know if anybody wants to see something like that. It just kind of muddies the water. Yeah And if you have any questions, uh, uh, we’ve done this Cadel’s edition a couple of times over the years. I’ve been part of that for me.

00:58:04,370	Last time was 23 years down the road, or 2 or 3 years ago, we did look at planting most of this to the south and then phasing it, um. it, it’s very similar to that platform we’re reducing the R3.

00:58:20,800	2 on the West, uh, that was originally proposed to go further south, um, it is all the rest is all our 7, single family, so it’s following that concept, the original concept that we have in front of you tonight has a cul-de-sac on the east that cul-de-sac would be no longer cul-de-sac.

00:58:42,630	We, we would look to try to snake a road down that hill to connect to a future road, uh, between us and Clover Grove. so Any questions Thank you Do you have any other comments, questions on public hearing number 2 In last call for item number 2. none all clothes, return it to the Commission. You move the table for you, Chair, Robinson.

00:59:35,000	Motion is to table a preliminary platin zone change request until, uh, September uh based on conversations with the applicant and neighboring property in order for both Applicants to turn in complimentary preliminary plats to address cross connection concerns between the two properties. Motion was made by Comm McLean, seconded by Comm Enfeld. Any questions? Rovvo, please Comm Hubert Yes.

01:00:07,470	Comm Mutter, yes. Mayor Frelich Comm Infeld, Comm McLean. Yes. Comm Smith. Yes. Comm Hammond. Yes. Comm Gardner, Comm Renner. Yes, Chair Robinson? Yes. motion is passed Any other business With no other business on the agenda. I’ll take a motion to Adjourn. So moved 2. We’ll motion 2 to Adjourn.

01:00:46,530	All in favor signified by saying aye. Po same sign. We