00:00:11,070	Zoning Commission for April 27th to order. Roll call please. Commissioner Horn. Here. Commissioner Huber. Commissioner Lang here. Commissioner Mudder here. Mayor Froelich here. Commissioner IntVeld. Here. Commissioner McLean. Here. Commissioner Smith. Commissioner Hammond. Commissioner Gardner. Here. Commissioner Renner. Chair Robinson. Here.

00:00:53,800	And we have a copy of the minutes from our February 23rd meeting. Do we have any changes or questions? Again, any changes? Do we have a motion? I’ll make a motion to approve the minutes. Second. Motion to approve the minutes of February 23rd by Commissioner Renner. Second by Commissioner IntVeld. Questions? Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes. Commissioner Mudder. Yes. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes.

00:01:52,000	Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair Robinson. Yes. And it’s our approved. We’ll move on to the first of our public hearings. Item number one. Consider a setback variance for lot six, block one. Nikola, second edition. Hey, there. Good evening, Commission members. Again. My name is Dave Voss and I work for interstate engineering.

00:02:34,730	I’m your interim planner. Kind of filling in for Rachel tonight. Um, so our first kind of item on the docket is, uh, to consider a setback variance for lot six, block one of the Nikola second edition. Um, and so Greg Valens has requested a building setback variance in the LHS trailer park subdivision zoning, zoning district.

00:03:03,600	The property is located at 1100 and 11th Street Southeast. Um, and basically what what they are looking to do is, uh, install, um, a manufactured home that would not meet setback limits. That would be a little bit too long. And we can show kind of a chair. A little bit.

00:03:32,070	So essentially the you know, they want to put on it would be a little too long. Um, and they’d have to kind of maneuver a little bit so that their side door, the second exit labeled on here would not encroach on some of these utilities on the property.

00:03:54,370	Um, and reviewing kind of neighboring properties, it seems it’s pretty much in line with what’s already going on in the neighborhood and, and shouldn’t be. Um, wouldn’t be any drastic difference. Um, so we’re recommending approval to approve the the setback variance for lot six, block one and Nikola, second edition. Um, and then your recommended motion is in your agenda packet, unless there’s any questions. Questions for David.

00:04:26,800	I’m going to bring it up. And you already said it, but I’m going to ask it again because I’m looking at this map and the current utilities. And the second exit. Is there enough room in case somebody has to work in there? Um, on those utilities? I believe so.

00:04:46,070	I, I can’t say for certain the, the intent, but I know that they, they did want to locate it so that the, the second exit, I suppose a stairwell or something like that porch wouldn’t cover those up. So I assume that would leave enough room for that. Okay. Thank you.

00:05:11,700	Any other questions for Dave? With none at this time, I will open it up for public comment. Uh, we are taking comments or questions on item number one. Again, comments or questions on item number one. And last call. No comments or questions. I’ll close the public hearing. Return back to the commission. And do we have any further questions for.

00:06:00,730	Dave, before we complete discussion? Chair Robinson I would move to approve the requested variance of the front yard setback in the Residential Mobile Home Subdivision district for lot six, block one.

00:06:33,100	Nicole, a second edition from a minimum of 15ft to a minimum of 12ft, based on the request of the variances, the minimum variance that would accomplish the relief sought by the applicant. I’ll second. Motion by Commissioner Renner, second by Commissioner Mudder. Motion is to recommend approval of the requested variance of the front yard setback in the residential mobile Home Subdivision district for lot six, block one. Nicole.

00:07:15,100	A second edition from a minimum of 15ft to a minimum of 12 to accomplish the minimum relief requests as requested by the applicant. Any questions? No questions. Roll call. Vote please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes. Commissioner Mudder. Yes. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair Robinson. Yes. The motion is approved.

00:07:51,800	Uh, we’ll move on to item number two and to consider a final plat for 1884 edition. Dave. Okay, so the next item on your agenda is to consider a final plat for the 1884 edition. Just for some background, the preliminary plat was conditionally approved at the February 23rd meeting of City Commission.

00:08:26,530	So this is the final plat for 1884 edition. Located in the southeast corner of section 32, Township 139, range 81, West, within the itJ, and this portion of southeast quarter of section 32 has been previously partially platted as lot A, and has six existing lots.

00:08:53,800	Uh, let’s see, the applicant proposes to replant lot one, lot two, and lot three of lot A and re plat lots one and two. Block one of the call area edition B, a total of 15.3 acres with four lots within block one and three lots within block two. There are a couple of, I guess we could say unusual pieces on this plat.

00:09:20,370	Um, lot two of block two has sort of a long, uh, I guess I call it a Panhandle. Um, and then lot three of block two, which is on the top left corner of your image, there is probably kind of just kind of a remnant and not likely to be

00:09:43,000	developed. Um, it does provide access throughout the whole subdivision. There’s no zone change being requested at this time. Um, the final plat appears to protect access to existing and proposed lots. The final plat application includes an updated master plan which provides for orderly development and maintains access for future development.

00:10:06,900	I think we’ve got that here. So we do. And again, lot three of block two is a nonconforming remnant and may not be able to be developed. So this meets all technical requirements for consideration of a final plat. Fits in with zoning and comprehensive plan.

00:10:36,270	Um and we recommend approval of the 1884 edition in your suggested motion is in your packet, and I’m happy to take any questions. Questions for Dave. Do we have any questions for Dave? With none at this time, I will open it up for public comment or questions on item number two. Again, we’re taking comments or questions on item number two. And this will be the third call.

00:11:29,100	With none I’ll close the public hearing and return it back to the commission. I’ll make the motion. I move to approve the final plot of 1884 edition. I’ll second it. Motion by Commissioner Mudder. Second by Commissioner Gardner. Motion is to recommend approval of the final plat for 1884. Edition. Any questions? With none. Roll call. Vote, please.

00:12:19,230	Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes, Commissioner Mudder. Yes. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair Robinson. Yes. Motion is approved. Third public hearing is to consider a preliminary plat for Lakewood Commercial Park. Seventh edition. Dave.

00:13:03,170	So the next item in your agenda is to consider preliminary plat for Lakewood Commercial Park, seventh edition. This is the preliminary plat is located in lots one B and four block one Lakewood Commercial lots two and three block one of Koch’s Lakewood Villas and lot two, block one of Koch’s Lakewood Villas.

00:13:29,970	Second edition, all located in section six, Township 138, range 80 West, Morton County, within city limits. The applicant proposes to combine lot one, B, block one, Lakewood Commercial and lot one, block one coax. Lakewood Villas second edition and to re plat the remaining lots. The applicant wishes to subdivide in order to develop vacant land and convey additional space to current landowners. Let’s pull that one up here. Zoom in a little bit.

00:14:09,800	So essentially what they’re looking to do here is to extend lots three, four, five and six to include this, uh, these portions in the rear and to increase the size of lot two, and then to combine the rest of this into lot one.

00:14:34,530	And there would be this kind of large, uh, drainage, low lying area on the eastern third or so of lot one. Lot one is more than half of the area of the plat. Um, and the application states that they would at some time want to put multi-use shops on this piece of property. Um, and to note, we did get one comment in opposition to multi-use shops from neighbors. Um.

00:15:10,270	Access to lots three, four and five and six is via Nash Lane. Access to lot two is via Shoal Loop Southeast, and lot one could be accessed from 40th Avenue Southeast. Preliminary plat appears to protect access to existing and proposed lots. Lot one is a large retention pond area, making that portion of the lot unlikely to be developed.

00:15:39,330	See? It’s total of 2.9 acres. All in one block, six lots. That is. Current land use on the proposed lots two, three, four and five and six is residential. Lot one is vacant and the future land use plan designates this area as high density residential.

00:16:07,270	This does meet all technical requirements for preliminary plat. Um, and at this time we recommend approval of the preliminary plat for Lakewood Commercial Park, seventh edition. And your suggested motion is in your packet. If there are no questions. Questions for Dave. I guess I’m going to ask Dave. Is that I’m looking at this lots.

00:16:41,470	Um, six here a little bit or it’s not going to affect the drainage system at all. Is there enough room there so we don’t have any problems? I don’t think so. I are you talking about that little piece kind of on the very left side of lot six? Yeah, I noticed that too.

00:17:00,700	It kind of goes into the slope a little bit, but, um, I don’t it shouldn’t affect drainage. And I think it’s pretty gentle. I guess you could say so. I don’t foresee an issue there, I guess. Okay. Thank you. Chair Robinson. Dave, we’re lot two is if you can bring that map up again. Heading to the west. You know, there’s almost like a little sliver there.

00:17:26,370	Why? Why isn’t that more squared off? I mean, is that going to be an issue somewhere down the line? You know, it’s kind of. Yeah. Right there. Triangle here. Yeah. Um. That’d be easier to come straight. South, I guess.

00:17:42,330	I could not answer why they chose to do that. However, I believe that’s just kind of the lay of the land as it is now. And so a lot to they just sort of extended down to this line here. So they’re trying to make it kind of, sort of even with this existing line here. But I couldn’t, I couldn’t answer why the triangles there.

00:18:04,730	But I don’t necessarily think there’s going to be issues with that either. Thank you. Any other questions for Dave? But none. I’ll open up the public hearing on item number three. Lakewood Commercial Park, seventh. Thank you, Joe Robinson Lang.

00:18:45,530	And I’m with Swenson Hagan Engineering, representing the Midnighters on this one, which is the the large lot, the lot one, block one. Uh, certainly answer any questions that you have as far as the drainage, uh, concern was, um, you know, as we go forward into a site planning stage, we’re going to need to, to account for that drainage that is already there.

00:19:00,100	We’ll have to protect that and allow those properties to continue draining the way they always have, and then also account for our additional drainage that will happen whenever a building or concrete is added. We will have to handle our stormwater issues at that point.

00:19:12,630	Um, as far as those lots in the North, with that odd sort of curved lot, there is an existing lot line there, and it already was at that curve. So we did our best to make it work. But some of the properties we don’t have access to our non-involvement plat, so we’re just matching into those. Um, additionally, um, like David mentioned, tonight is just the preliminary plat.

00:19:28,530	We’re not asking for a zoning change. The zoning will remain as CB. I’m not asking for the special use on multi shops. That’s that’s for a later point. Tonight is just about, uh, about land exchanges and a lot lines. All right. Certainly answer any questions if you have them. As a commission have any questions.

00:19:52,500	Thank you. Thank you. Again we’re taking comments or questions on item number three Lakewood Commercial. Does anybody in the room that would like to comment or question. The plot. Itself? Again, comments on item number three. And last call. With none. I’ll close the public hearing, turn it back to the commission.

00:20:47,500	I’ll move to approve the pulmonary plat for Lakewood Commercial Park, seventh edition. I’ll second. Motion by Commissioner IntVeld. Second by Commissioner Renner. Motion is to recommend approval of the preliminary plat for Lakewood Commercial Park, seventh edition. Questions. None. Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes, Commissioner Mudder. Yes. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes.

00:21:26,030	Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair Robinson. Yes. Motion is approved. Next public hearing is item number four. Consider a preliminary plat and zone change for School district eighth edition. Dave. Thank you. Um, so the next item on your agenda is.

00:21:58,630	Consider a preliminary plat and zone change for School District eighth edition. Um, and I will just preface before I give you my review, that we had some kind of last minute information come in, communicated to me. Um, we’re changing our recommendation to approval. So other than that, though, the kind of findings are the same. So with that being said, we’ll just need to change.

00:22:27,900	Um, staff recommendation from deny to approve. But with that, we can kind of get into it. Call this up. Um, for some background, uh, the applicant met with city staff at a pre planning meeting on April 2nd. Staff discussed some concerns regarding connectivity, connectivity to an area roughly west of existing eighth Street, Northwest.

00:22:59,700	And staff did also have some concerns with the plats deviation from the 2023 Mandan High School Placemaking Plan, which provided for an extension of eighth Street and included roundabouts at the intersection of ninth Avenue with Division Street and ninth Street, and one of those roundabouts has since been addressed.

00:23:22,870	And so that’s one of the reasons why we’re changing our recommendation. As the preliminary plat for School District eighth edition, currently lots 1 to 5, block two School District first edition replant. Located in northeast quarter of section 28. Township 139 North. Range 81 West within city limits. It’s a total area of 27.

00:23:47,100	84 acres to be platted into four blocks, with a total of eight lots. Um, and the proposed plat would preserve the existing ASA and the Braves Center, which you can see on the plat here are these kind of grayish buildings. Um, access will be provided by ninth Street Northwest and ninth Avenue Northwest.

00:24:19,230	Uh, which kind of divides the plat into roughly four quadrants east side of the plat, including lots two and three. Block three abut Sunset Drive, sixth Avenue, northwest, eighth Street northwest, and eighth Avenue Northwest. Proposed rights of way are approximately 66ft in width for ninth Avenue Northwest and 60ft for eighth Street Northwest, and the requested zone change.

00:24:45,870	You should be able to see on the screen there. Um, R-7 single family residential for lot three, block one and lot one, block four are 3.22 family residential for lot three, block three see a commercial for lot two, block three and CC commercial for lots one and two.

00:25:12,330	Block one, lot one, block two and lot one, block three. And some of the reason for the commercial zoning you’ll see on this plat, um, is to account for public recreation uses of the skate park. The center of the ASA would kind of all fall under that.

00:25:32,600	And so we wanted to make sure that, uh, whatever zoning would be used here wouldn’t create a nonconformity. So essentially, the use that’s there now would be allowed by the zone that’s being proposed. Adjacent property to the north is agriculture to the west, and south is R-7, to the east is Ceia, and R 3.2 and R.M. multifamily.

00:25:57,900	The Future Land Use plan designates the properties park on the north side of the property and public semi-public on the south. Um. Again, the westward extension of eighth Street that was outlined in the Placemaking Plan is not been included in this plat. And so that would kind of run if you can see my cursor more or less right here. Um, the requested zone change.

00:26:24,430	Sorry, I already addressed that again. This commercial would be for public recreation uses. Uh, so all technical requirements for consideration of a preliminary plat have been met. Um, and it is consistent with the comprehensive plan and future land use plan.

00:26:53,270	However, it is, uh, does it exactly mirror what was in the 2023 placemaking plan? Um, and the zone change fulfills the goals, objectives and policies of the future land Use Plan and any other plans. And with that, our again, um, our recommendation is to approve the preliminary plat and zone change for the school district eighth edition and your suggested motion to approve or deny or in your packet. I’m happy to take any questions.

00:27:23,700	Questions for Dave. Dave, can you pull the map up again? I want to see where what uh, projection of where eighth Street is going to be. Please. See? Yeah. So here’s a street here existing.

00:27:58,970	Um, and I note this because the that placemaking plan essentially would have extended a street this way and this preliminary plat does not follow that. Is that the key difference? Um, yes, I believe so. Without having it right in front of you. I did bring a copy on paper. Of course. You probably get up on here to. Oops. We had it. Okay.

00:29:15,270	This is the, um, an excerpt out of that placemaking plan. So you can see kind of towards the bottom part of the image. A street is extending across, uh, where this plat would be. And so that’s not been carried forward. Thank you. But I would say the rest is largely in keeping with what was in that plan.

00:29:47,230	So a street northwest would not is not going to carry over. That’ll be gone from this from the the plat is the current is the one that’s going to be the one that we see here. That’s the one that would be okay. Yep. Yep. They would not extend a street. So then. How are.

00:30:06,970	How are you going to get into there for the homes then. That’s it. Yes. That would point. Yep. That would have to be a question for future development.

00:30:37,730	Maybe I’m missing something here, but why? We’re supposed to vote on something and agree to a preliminary plot when we already know that we don’t have access to part of it in the first place? That seems kind of strange to me. Yeah. Um, we had talked with, uh, the applicant, um, and some of the issues that we felt there were connectivity.

00:30:58,630	They’ve kind of addressed, uh, with the roundabout and some of the right of way. Um, it does leave this large lot on the south side of the property. Um, however, that will have to be decided at a future date.

00:31:22,270	Is there a reason why they changed it or why they, uh, moved away from it? From the preliminary one? I am not entirely sure why they didn’t include that piece from the placemaking plan. Um, and that that placemaking plan wasn’t, um, set in stone. So to say, you know, so it was a it was a plan, of course, but, you know, that’s how those things kind of go. I’m sorry you had said something about a roundabout.

00:31:47,970	Can you show us where that was located at? We got that on here. In a would be. About there, right? Yeah. But isn’t this an old map? And then you said they added it back in. Correct? They. This placemaking plan was a concept from 2023.

00:32:30,700	Um, and the preliminary plat that we’ve got in front of us doesn’t, doesn’t have the roundabout. include them does not have the roundabout on it. However, um, when speaking with the the applicant and the developer, they indicated that they would um, include that going forward. And so if you’d like, you could make that a condition of preliminary approval.

00:32:56,730	Uh, Dave, I got a question on the the zoning of CC, and I know you mentioned that that was because you wanted to make sure that the area wouldn’t be out of compliance. Right. But why would you have to go to CC? Is CA and CB not sufficient? I mean, light and light industrial seems pretty.

00:33:17,530	It it sounds, yes, I agree it does sound kind of, uh, I, I said the phrase I would use a little bit of sticker shock, like, why are we doing CC? Uh, we did float the idea of um, R.M.

00:33:33,630	multifamily, which also allows for public recreation group. However, uh, the owner did not want to go for it, so CC was kind of where we ended up. It just seems a little strange to have, you know, when we vote on things in the future, like down at the like Lakewood, we put a commercial district right next to the homes down there.

00:33:54,500	Well, that’s the way it was. Um, and I think at the time, you know, people, I don’t know what they were thinking. I mean, not not saying it was bad.

00:34:09,630	I just, I don’t know, like what their intent was, but it just seems like, well, today that that park looked pretty nice. But tomorrow, if someone comes in with a light industrial use, they could park it or some R-7 homes. Especially when if you could have a CA or C B designation. But. , um, I, I don’t believe CA and CB allowed for public recreation. Um, I’ll have to get.

00:34:34,170	I can get you a more solid answer on that, but I think CC was kind of like was basically the option since RM was out. Uh, we didn’t want to go with sort of the central business district because it didn’t seem fitting either. So we’re kind of left with CC. Chair Robinson isn’t there.

00:34:59,270	Isn’t there something somewhere that you there has to be some kind of a buffer zone between R7 and any commercial, though. There’s don’t I remember reading that someplace. There has to be some kind of a buffer zone. That’s right. Yeah. Uh, zoning ordinance does require buffer zones between uses. Um, and sometimes between zones.

00:35:25,800	Um, and it’s incumbent upon the person developing to, uh, make that buffer happen. So if I’m developing my R-7 next to, uh, some light industrial and the light industrial was their first, it’s my responsibility to make sure that gets in.. Chair Robinson.

00:35:49,370	Commissioner Uh, the other thing I was going to point out, this is, uh, building official singer, the CC lots that you see, lot one and lot two, the top lot, lot one is currently the skate park, and the second one next to the R7, is actually owned by the City of Mandan, used as a grass dump site. So I think we took that into consideration when we were looking at which zone it could possibly be. Um, in that.

00:36:06,970	So I think knowing we’ve got the skate park there with the parks and, and the city lot, we thought it made the most sense. Any other questions. On, that? I’m I’m thinking about parking lot for All Seasons Arena, to be honest with you.

00:36:34,600	Um, we’ve got a road that’s going going west of there. What’s the plan on or prediction of when that’s going to be done or future? Is it developer going to start working on that sooner or later? I’m not aware of the kind of construction timeline for that, but if I can get an answer for that, I will definitely share that. Okay.

00:36:56,930	Thank you. Any other questions? Commissioner Robinson, I guess just to point out that this concept here, it’s nothing’s been sold here on this land. It’s nothing been developed yet. So there’s no developer on it yet. So the concept of a road or anything, that’s something to work on in the future, I guess. So.

00:37:27,500	Chair Robinson I guess that kind of does touch on what I was thinking, too. If the land hasn’t even been sold and there is no developer on it, what is the reason behind the preliminary plat in the first place? To try to lock the developer into this as the way that we want it? I basically

00:37:46,170	telling the developer you can buy it, but this is what we want to see and this is the only thing we’re going to allow. Instead of giving the developer the ability to develop it the way they see fit.

00:37:59,530	I guess I can speak to the motives of why they wanted to go with the plat. I think, uh, if I had to guess, the school district kind of wants to be done with the land, so to say, and move on. Chair Robinson, Commissioner, rendered the existing plat, um, zoning on all of this is ag, so it really ties the hands of anyone coming in the future.

00:38:19,170	This is honestly a concept of what it could be, but it’s to help the school district so that they are able to do what they would like with the the plan or the property. I should say. Any other questions? I have, I just have one other one.

00:38:48,070	So let’s just say that we passed it and we did a zoning that would be out of compliance, right? With the I mean, obviously they’re not we’re not shutting their business down. Right. Like so I mean, is there any repercussions that if we zone them out of their usage, is that a problem? I don’t think there’s any immediate repercussions.

00:39:08,330	But generally you, you you obviously want to avoid something not conforming. Um, especially with a view to what could happen in ten, 20 years. Um, could just make a real headache for somebody down the road. Because I like the design.

00:39:31,970	I like the concept that has been put out there, you know, with the skating park and I just feel a little nervous putting a CC next to an R-7. But other than that, I mean. Staff’s approved. Your name. No more comfortable with it. Any others? But none at this time. I’d like to open it up for. Open up the public hearing again on item number four. Good evening. Chairman. Commissioners.

00:40:05,770	A Ulmer with independent land surveying and engineering. I can probably clean up some of your questions that you’ve been asking. Um, the main purpose of this was the school plat. I don’t know if you’ve seen it, but it’s dozens of lots.

00:40:24,170	Uh, the ASA is actually part of the school lot, so there’s, uh, the parks actually owns the building. The school actually owns the land underneath it. And the end of all this, the school is going to is being demoed. I’m part of that project as well.

00:40:40,100	Um, we’re trying to procure a, a portion of land to make that deal with parks to get their building on their property for the ASA. And also the main one of the main goals of this was just to clean up the property before the school turns around and sells it to somebody, um, because it is multiple parcels, multiple people could come in and buy one parcel out of 12 or however

00:40:59,600	many parcels there are. And piecemeal it like that. And then you get that long drawn out. Who does what over time. So our main goal here was just to try to clean up the property.

00:41:19,370	Uh, ninth, ninth is our, uh, ninth Street’s already built, uh, to a certain point, but then it did ends into the football field. Uh, there is no street north and south, as you know. You snake through the parking lots. This is outside that parking lot going north and south to the west, trying to take the turn at seventh up ninth, um, and go all the way up to Division Street.

00:41:37,070	Uh, a portion if you look back at the history of this land, there was kind of a portion further west that a road would go up and down. But, uh, if you look at the lay of the land in, good luck building it.

00:41:51,330	Um, it’s one of those where there’s a hill on the south hill, uh, a wetland in the middle and and a the giant hill above the skate park on the north. That was in line with that future road that they were thinking, um, there are a lot of easements on this plat as well, with existing water lines. We’re working with city staff because some of those have been vacated.

00:42:08,730	We are removing and getting rid of some of some of those, uh, utilities to the to the old school building as well. So we’re trying to clean that up.

00:42:23,900	So a main portion of this, just to reiterate, was just to try to clean up this property for a future developed developer to develop it. Um, the main reason one of the eighth Street not cutting through, uh, we have a couple different thing theories with that. And when we talked about it, we did look at that and the preliminary. But it’s cutting through that larger lot on the South.

00:42:45,800	Um, that larger lot would turn into kind of a pie shape on the west side and only be about 150, 170ft deep, which is kind of hard to even place if you place a single single building on it, then you’re double fronting. You end up with a street in the front and a street in the back.

00:42:59,100	Is that fair to that lot? I don’t know, so we really didn’t want a street to go through, uh, with staff or staff, communication, everything like that. The the main concern was the north south community. Our connectivity between uh, Division Street and seventh Street.

00:43:18,900	Uh, so we proposed that and in further conversations, uh, as we will have we are going to provide more right of way, um, kind of triangles to be able to procure that right away for a future roundabout at that ninth Street and Ninth Avenue intersection, kind of the main intersection of the four quadrants of land, uh, for

00:43:40,270	the zoning, we actually reached out to planning and, and, uh, city staff to try to suggest something. We didn’t know exactly what to zone it. Uh, the school was kind of hesitant to put it in. Mm. Knowing that that’s multifamily. And, um, doesn’t really have a, a limit on how many units.

00:44:00,900	If you got the land, you can put more units on it kind of thing. Uh, so we were a little hesitant in going in. Mm. I think we’re open to being that this is preliminary plat. We’re open to do some kind of restricted CC or something of that nature that allows that public use on these properties.

00:44:19,170	Um, if the city really pushes that. Mm. I think we’re open to that discussion too. So we’re just we’re just trying to find something that works for the property.

00:44:38,870	And CC was suggested because of the public uses for the for the brave center, for the ASN, for that skate park and, and the city lot for the grassland leaves dumped. Uh, we are proposing that CA and that far east lot along sunset CA is a little bit less restricted. Uh, can do more businesses. The setbacks are a little bit different than the CC.

00:44:59,270	Um, so we’d like to try to keep that as a kind of a prime frontage lot for, for commercial up there. Uh, we proposed R3 two again, not to go to like mm for that large lot on that south end. Just it’s more of a place maker.

00:45:18,870	The school intends to sell this property and let somebody else build if they want to change it at that time to something else for a different zone, or propose eighth eighth Street or something, they can do it on their own dime and have a plan to follow at these two. For any kind of building. Um, anything that I missed for.. Is this going to make it easier for the school to sell these lots? I think so it’s less dirty, uh, than the existing property.

00:45:42,970	Um, and, and this allows, like I said, a big, uh, check box that we wanted to check was trying to get a piece of property for the ASA to break off from the school property as well.

00:46:04,800	So I think, uh, developers would look at this and say, so that far West R7, that’s very limited area because of the wetlands and stuff that’s in there. You’re not going to get a whole lot of homes in there. Uh, that’s very rough, rugged land. Um, but. Yeah, if somebody has the money they can pay to build it, we just as as the school told me, they don’t want to build it. Thank you. So.

00:46:30,970	Any other questions for. Thank you. Yeah. Thanks. I’ll have you state your name for the record, please. Sure. I’m Carlin. Peterman Turner. I am a citizen who lives across the street from the mess that you were talking about.

00:46:57,100	Uh, it’s been really surreal to watch that all fall down because I graduated from there, and many years ago. Um, so my concern is, and I understand talking with the gentleman before the meeting started, this is just a preliminary plan. Correct. So there can be changes made even though you approve this as it is.

00:47:16,100	Um, I know speaking with my neighbors, and I’m one of those three houses that face on seventh Street. So we are concerned with traffic. We are concerned with what you are going to allow being built there.

00:47:35,230	We already deal with two apartment buildings that have been problems with drug sales and, low income people, and I have nothing against them. I just am concerned about whether or not this is going to allow for more large apartment buildings being built to accommodate the low income, and then will just be exacerbating what we’ve already been experiencing for the many years in the past.

00:47:57,000	Um, so I, I also think the Ace Street, it’s going to really congested traffic if that street doesn’t flow through, because traffic there already is very congested. And if the streets, I mean, a roundabout is not going to fix it on ninth in that little corner back in those parking lots.

00:48:13,000	So I, I would really look at our, our concerns are what’s going to be built there. How is the traffic going to flow and how is it going to affect everything. And yes, this is a wetland, I believe me, I live on it and it’s a mess.

00:48:27,530	So I think it needs to be really considered as to what is being allowed to be placed especially closer to that wetland area. Back off in that ag area under downtown Port Hill, because it is a concern. I mean, our houses are sinking, so it needs to be really a concern of that.

00:48:46,100	And I think that’s my only I’ve never presented it one of these. So I’m like trying to think of all these questions. But it being that this is a preliminary, I’m hoping that the next step is something where the public can also again, bring in their concerns.

00:49:01,730	Before you guys all make a determination as to what the school district is going to be allowed to sell it for, it is a definite concern for those of us who live there. Thank you. Thank you. Any other comments? Questions on item number four.

00:49:32,070	A follow up a little bit on some of your questions, but, uh, Commissioner Horn commented that there is no developer or buyer at this time. So the school district has they they don’t have a idea from a developer at this point. Uh, they’re trying to do a zone. It is easier to sell land once zoning is established and layout. And from what I gather here, that’s primary purpose for this evening.

00:50:07,100	Again, any other comments or questions? With none, I’ll close the public hearing. We turn it back to the commission. You guys want me to take a stab at. This? I approve, I move to approve the preliminary plat for zone change for School District eighth edition. And as Dave discussed, do you want to put in the condition of the roundabout? Yes.

00:50:43,430	On the condition of the roundabout. Thank you. That’s it. Ninth and ninth. The condition at the roundabout would be there. Is that okay? Chair Robinson, I think that something will have cleaned up by final. With the additional information and the approval, I’ll second. A motion by Commissioner Second by Commissioner IntVeld.

00:51:24,630	Motion is to recommend approval of the preliminary plat and zone change for School district eighth edition. Uh, with the. Uh. Addition that we discussed tonight with a roundabout at the corner of ninth Street and Ninth Avenue intersection of ninth and ninth. Any questions? None. Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes. Commissioner Mudder. Yes.

00:51:59,230	Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Chair Robinson. Yes. Motion is approved, and we’ll move on to public hearing number five, consider a preliminary plat and zone change for Keidels South Heart Terrace, fifth edition.

00:52:29,730	Uh, Chair Robinson, before, I’ll just letting everyone know that I’m leaving just to make sure that I’m not. I do have a conflict of this, so I won’t be part of this, um, discussion. Okay. So, Commissioner Gardner recused himself from the item.

00:53:10,900	So the next item on your agenda is to consider a preliminary plat and zone change for Keidels South Heart Terrace, fifth edition. So this is the preliminary plat for Keidels. South Heart Terrace, fifth edition, located in the northwest corner of section three, Township 138 North, range 81 West fifth Primary in Morton County, North Dakota, within city limits.

00:53:30,070	This portion of the northwest corner of section three has been previously platted as Keidels, South Heart Terrace Fourth, which was vacated. The applicant has met with city staff. Excuse me. The applicant has met with city staff numerous times between this item being tabled. Originally in fall 2025 and now most recently, the applicant met with city staff at a pre-planning meeting on April 2nd.

00:53:50,900	Staff discuss some concerns regarding connectivity to the east at Clover Grove, and engineering staff had concerns with secondary access for fire and emergency services. Access. Uh, the total area of the plat would be 47.

00:54:15,370	82 acres in five blocks, with a total of 71 lots, and we’ve just got a list of how many lots are in each block. But I won’t read all those off other than to note that, uh, block five, um, has lot 20, which is a drainage basin with a 40 foot stormwater and drainage easement across lot 19. And I’ll try and zoom in here. Oh, probably. So kind of on the right side here.

00:54:45,370	This big lot is lot 19. And then lot 20. Is this polygon up here on the top right. Let’s see. We’ll go over some access. Block one access is on to eighth Avenue Southwest I’ll scroll a little bit maybe.

00:55:23,900	Block two is accessed via eighth Avenue Southwest cobblestone loop and a cul de sac created by seventh Avenue Southwest. Block four is accessed via cobblestone loop, fourth Avenue Southwest, and a cul de sac at seven second Avenue Southwest. Block five is accessed via cobblestone loop and a cul de sac coming off of called Stone Cobblestone Loop, labeled Lyford Court. That’s on the bottom right of your plat.

00:55:46,800	Connection to existing roads is via extension of eighth Avenue Southwest sixth Avenue, fourth Avenue, and cobblestone loop from South Heart Terrace. Third edition directly to the north, and so on.

00:56:13,900	Your, uh, the on your screen there, uh, the part that’s not colored in is Keidels South Heart third and the area that is colored in and that’s being requested for a zone change is what you are considering tonight. Um, proposed rights of way are 66ft in width for cobblestone loop and sixth Avenue Southwest and 80ft for eighth Avenue Southwest and fourth Avenue Southwest.

00:56:39,270	The plat shows eighth Avenue Southwest moving eastward from its current orientation. And that’s this kind of a, um, it’s coming down here and then curves over to the east a little bit. That’s this curve here. And shows multifamily lots on the west side of Eighth Avenue. That’s these here that are.

00:57:05,730	Uh, city staff had requested minimal access points along Eighth Avenue Southwest as the potential build out and platting of the land to the south may include intensive uses such as a hotel, conference center or school. Eighth Avenue Southwest will operate as a collector and therefore access to Eighth Avenue must be appropriately managed.

00:57:22,100	Um, and so we want to be really careful what we do with Eighth Avenue. Uh, there is no access to the east of this subdivision. I’ll scroll again here. City staff. Um, ahead, after facilitating conversations with the proposed Clover Grove subdivision to the east, requested that at a minimum, staff would like to see an eastward right of way preserved through platting or memorandum of understanding.

00:57:50,630	Uh, the currently shown cul de sac. That’s Lyford Court on the east side of the subdivision does not allow for continuation into the coulee beyond Kyle’s fifth and Clover Grove. Uh, the applicant noted that the construction of a road would be really costly, and city staff acknowledged that.

00:58:12,470	But in the interest of future connectivity, requested preservation of the option. So this plat does not meet those requests. City staff have noted that this is a persistent occurrence on the south side of Mandan.

00:58:34,370	In general, with subdivisions being self-contained rather than providing east west access, leading to a lack of connectivity for vehicular and pedestrian pedestrian traffic and higher likelihood of future concerns. As the south side of Mandan continues to develop. So essentially what we’re saying there is, um, we have concerns that this subdivision is a bit of an island and doesn’t connect, well, east west.

00:58:57,370	Uh, the requested zone change would be R7 for lots 1 to 5 and 12 to 15 of block two, and lot 6 to 9, block three, lots 5 to 18 to block four, and lots 1 to 19 of block five. And mm. That’s multifamily for lots 1 to 4 a block one, lot 6 to 11 and 16 of block two. And lots 1 to 5 and 10 to 13 of block three.

00:59:19,100	And lots 1 to 4 of block four properties to the north and south are zoned R7. And agriculture to the east is R.M. and agriculture and to the west is public right of way and agriculture. The uh the future Land Use Plan designates this area as low density residential.

00:59:41,100	Uh, some of our concerns. The plat does not contemplate access again to Clover Grove to the east either. In a dedication or preservation of right of way. Uh, the preliminary plat does not provide the required secondary access according to 2021 International Fire Code. With regards to what is called remoteness.

01:00:06,100	So essentially what that’s saying is that if there are access, roads need to be certain. Um, within a certain distance apart to be considered sufficient. And we don’t this plat does not satisfy that.

01:00:28,730	And staff request that the owner and applicant develop an updated plat with full connection to the east at Clover Grove and lot 19 of block five. Again, that’s the big lot on the east side, has no access and will not be able to be developed. Uh, all technical requirements for consideration in preliminary plat have been met.

01:00:53,630	Uh, the proposed subdivision would likely not have substantial effects on traffic, so no traffic impacts that would be required. Uh, the plat does not include sufficient easements and rights of way to provide for orderly development. Uh, the city of Mandan and other agencies would not be able to provide necessary public services, facilities, and programs to serve the development allowed by the proposed subdivision. At the time of development.

01:01:13,700	And again, that’s going back to the 2021 IFC, with the secondary access. So essentially not enough access for emergency services. It’s not in the special flood area or anything like that. Uh, it’s it is generally consistent with intent of the zoning ordinance, but it is not consistent with comprehensive plan or the future land use plan.

01:01:37,600	And the proposed subdivision would adversely affect the public health, safety in general. Welfare, again, because of the access issues and the lack of connectivity, uh, the zone change fulfills the plan or fulfills the goals, objectives and policies of the future. Land Use plan and any other plans. Um, I will try to pull up. There we go.

01:02:13,630	I wonder if you want to touch on the access. I’m gonna have Jarek explain some of the secondary access issues, because he’s got a better understanding of it. Chair Robinson. Commissioners. Good evening. I’m Jarek Wigness I’m the Mandan city engineer.

01:02:36,370	Um, I prepared some exhibits today just to help, uh, folks better understand, um, some of the nuances of the secondary access remoteness piece that we’re looking at. Um, remoteness is what we’re focusing on focusing on here, because I think that everybody can see that there are two access points going into this community. Eighth Avenue, uh, southwest and fourth Avenue Southwest.

01:03:00,730	Um, the remoteness piece of the um, International Fire Code requires that the two access points must be a distance apart, equal to half of the diagonal distance of the area that it’s meant to serve. So I did prepare some exhibits here. Right here.

01:03:24,270	Um, I prepared two exhibits, kind of showing two diagonal distances depending on how you want to look at the, uh, development intended to be served. This, um, southwest to northeast distance is 2900ft. And the northwest to southeast distance is about 2700ft. That would be 1450 or 1350ft. Um, then that would be the distance between the two. Um, fire apparatus access points.

01:03:52,530	Right now, what we have is 1200ft distance between eighth Avenue and Fourth Avenue. So, um, by by, um, the word of the international fire code, uh, this this does not meet, um, the remoteness requirement. Um, that is a little bit why we we are we are, uh.

01:04:25,170	Pushing for this, uh, secondary access to, uh, be connected through this, uh, Lifford Court down to this existing right of way here. Um, would be to address the concern both today, but then also, um, the concern going into the future, uh, the developers have provided a master plan, and while it is out of compliance today, as this developer tries to go deeper and deeper and deeper into the development, it

01:04:46,600	will become further and further out of compliance. So while while they might be out of compliance by only 150ft today, they might be out of compliance by 1200ft in the future.

01:05:11,000	And the connection to the East offers, um, we think the last opportunity to make a significant secondary access connection until it continues south, where they can connect to highway six many, many years from now. Down here or connect to McKenzie drive, if it crosses the heart River and continues through this, um, through this area south of Mandan, um, I did get, uh, an email from Chief Bitz, kind of, uh, reiterating his, uh, his concern surrounding the

01:05:43,100	connectivity for, uh, emergency services. And I think he has a good kind of concluding line here. He says we view connectivity is as essential to meeting both the letter and intent of the fire code and to ensuring the long term public safety as the neighborhood and surrounding areas continue to

01:06:00,270	develop. Um, another piece that we might, uh, bring up is that this, while this is what we think is the last opportunity for secondary access for this community, we also think that it is the last secondary access opportunity for the for the community to the east as well.

01:06:19,900	Um, so we would, uh, through this kind of be memorializing the deprivation of secondary access to both this community and the neighboring community. Um, I hope I explained that, okay, if you have any other questions, I can try and answer them. Um, but I can turn it over to Dave to. Questions? For Eric.

01:06:44,430	Chair Robinson. Jared, did you say. that that is already a right of way on the east side of the property? I believe. Right between the two properties. Uh, Commissioner Robinson or Mayor or Chair Robinson? Commissioner, I believe that it is existing right of way.

01:07:04,470	It is currently maintained by, um, a few property owners to the south there. Um, and this would, uh, bring it in or as this area gets developed, it would become a city street and it would be eventually maintained by, uh, City Public Works. That answers. The potential of using that right now as if it is a right of way. There’s already the potential to use it. Then. Um.

01:07:27,930	I have to get permission from from the, uh, Glover beside. Chair Robinson. Commissioner, there is, I think, 100 foot wide, um, right of way existing there today. Any other questions? But none at this time. I will open it up for public hearing on item number five. There’s anybody in the room that wants to comment or question.

01:08:16,230	Good evening. Chairman. Commissioners Abe Ulmer with Independent Land Surveying and engineering. Again, um, I can give you a brief history, I guess, of this area.

01:08:35,470	I’ve been part of this project since it started with Keidels first on the north side of 19th Street, um, Keidels Well, I’ll skip the north side of of of, uh, 19th Street and just stick with the south side, uh, third was started in 2013 with a master plan that was approved by the commission and staff with a cul de sac, based on the fact that it’s going to be a very steep and snake like road going down

01:08:52,700	that east side. Um, so at that time, it was recommended that we did not put that cul de sac, or we would put the cul de sac in, not the connection to the east. Um, and that was with master planning in 2013.

01:09:12,270	In 2021, uh, plat was actually filed and approved with the cul de sac, as shown. Um, my previous developers who own this land vacated that plat and moved forward with Keidels fifth, uh, which was also all the way approved. Uh, we were in the stages of actually bidding out the water and sewer.

01:09:34,170	Uh, one of those developers actually ended up passing away. They put everything on hold. Everything kind of just went to the wayside. They turned around and sold that property. So with Cato’s fourth and Cato’s fifth, and that was in 2022, that Cato’s fifth was approved.

01:09:53,600	Um, with that master plan of that same cul de sac. Um, now a new developer has come to buy the property and do everything, uh, we’re working with them because we have a lot of knowledge of of all the property down there and, and the development and the history of the land.

01:10:10,630	Um, it wasn’t until the neighbor to the east decided to put in over 30 units or proposed putting in over 30 units, and require himself to have a secondary access, that this was brought up by staff and and pushed on us by staff to provide that secondary access.

01:10:32,430	We looked at the we looked at putting a snake road together, shifting there right away. Everything else. Um, and working together with the neighbor. Um, very expensive road, very steep road, snake like road. Double switchback. Well, double curve. Um, not very congruent for great access or great development.

01:10:58,270	So, um, that’s what I’m here to share was the history of, of this property that it has been approved multiple times, even, uh, the latest in 2022 by this board and the city commission with that cul de sac on the southeast. So any questions? This grade that you speak of is it does it comply with today’s normal. We could make something. Work standards.

01:11:22,430	We could make something work to our standards today. Um, it’s going to be upwards of 8 to 10%. Between 8 to 10% going down on a on a double curved S road.

01:11:38,230	Um, but we need the neighbor also to do a lot of grading on their property just to get to that 8 to 10%. If they’re not willing to do that, it and they and they don’t comply, then it wouldn’t work. So there would have to be some major discussion and major cooperation between the two to make something work. So. Chair Robinson Ave.

01:12:01,800	just does this kind of come under one of those categories or whoever builds first, the next guy’s got a clean up afterwards? I mean, if if they developed this, if they were to put get rid of Lyford Court and make a street or even just an easement to make it look like there’s a street going over to the property line to the east, does

01:12:18,600	that put all of the headache on Glover? Uh, no. The the I guess right now, this was our proposal was was the cul de sac. We didn’t want to have an, uh, go down that steep hill with a road in the first place.

01:12:35,900	We we worked and we did look at that option and realized how steep it was and how much cooperation we need between the two properties. Uh, everything to make it feasible. Um, the city did want city right away. They did not want an easement. So.

01:12:58,100	Is there anybody from the city? Um, was this pre-approved in 2022 like this, or was it a little bit different? There were. I guess I can speak to that. I was part of that plat as well.

01:13:18,100	There are some, some different um, in 2022, we actually planted we had the proposed master plan for the entire property, but we were only planning the the West two blocks, let’s say. Okay, the master plan was all the way across the property, but to the east.

01:13:39,900	But and that showed that cul de sac Keidels Fourth, which was platted, was recorded by a different con or different engineering company, and a different developer had that cul de sac in it. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions for. Chair Robinson, a so how do we get to the fire issue? What’s the. Solution? I don’t know, that’s that’s where you guys get to sit up there and I get to just go the way that you guys tell me. To. Yeah.

01:14:13,600	Well, you heard the explanation, and it’s it’s the problem is ex today. But as you move forward, it becomes y, then Z. Yeah. And I and I’ve had plenty of conversations uh, different municipalities view this differently. Um, Jarek is looking at this measurements from 19th Street. Some other municipalities go to every intersection within.

01:14:39,100	So every major block intersection within the development, not just the major street as the secondary access. So there should be two accesses to minor intersections. Let’s say this is different towns. I’m not telling you how to do it.

01:15:00,370	I’m just telling you how some other municipalities work, they’ll look at individual minor intersections within the development, but they also look at major intersections as well in the development. So it’s kind of. It’s not up for me to decide the fire code. So. Have you had discussions with the fire chief? Yes. And he he has uh.

01:15:25,000	Uh, Steve Nardelli back in the day did not want a steep, snaky road. And so when we were working on Keidels, third Keidelss, fourth and fifth, it wasn’t an option. Mitch has a different view on it. So. Any other questions? Thank you. Yeah. We’re still taking comments or questions on item number five. Chairman.

01:16:05,530	Commissioners I did just want to yeah I wasn’t here for the 2022 approval. Um, the city engineer, city planner and fire chief all would have been different individuals at that time. Um, and then just to give context, 8 to 10% would be very similar to Lakota Avenue.

01:16:27,070	Um, going up from dairy Queen, up on top of Crying Hill just to give somebody just a frame of reference for what 8 to 10% might look like. Ten is the max. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Commissioners. Uh, Mr. Chairman, my name is Mike Lee, and I am surprised to hear that I’ve been, uh, the namesake for Lyford Court. That was news to me. Uh, a week or so ago.

01:17:03,230	Uh, not really my preference, but there it is. I did buy the land to the south here in two chunks, 80 acres, and I mean 127 acres. And then an additional 80 with the idea of carving off this top 47, the North 47, uh, to pay for some really beautiful things on the South, what would be 160 acres?

01:17:25,100	Because it is stunningly beautiful land down there with coolies and flat spaces and quiet and wilderness and turkeys and everything. That’s great about western North Dakota. Is there? Uh, but the funding, of course, is is a challenge.

01:17:44,530	And my thought when I saw this land at the first, the first time was that, well, there’s built in revenue right here. We can sell these lots and we can get a big head up on whatever we all decide we wanted to do with this chunk of ground.

01:18:04,730	You know, in event center school, um, toboggan runs for kids like a massive, the state’s biggest park for children fund and like all sorts of cool things could be happening there. But we’re focusing on this 47 acres now, the remaining that has not been deeded to the to the nonprofit. When when I did first buy this land I had, I saw these maps of all these lots of these lots that had already been planted.

01:18:23,800	And I didn’t. And, you know, to the city’s credit, the city staff’s credit, they put up with us a lot. Like we asked a lot of questions. Like what? Like. And they finally said, you know what, you better go see Abe because we don’t want to talk to you anymore.

01:18:38,330	We’re not we’re not your private engineering company. So. So we did, uh, we hired Abe. But, you know, all those discussions with city, it was not ever mentioned that this is like a fire issue or like a connectivity issue. All that came after afterwards.

01:18:59,530	Right after the Clover Grove people entered the picture. And I don’t know what what’s going to happen with Clover Grove. So far, it’s been it’s been very spotty. It’s difficult to get appointments with them. Uh, there’s there’s been long delays, long, long delays in trying to to work with them. And I’m just not serious.

01:19:21,330	I don’t know how serious that effort really is over there. Um, and so. I feel like it wasn’t none of this was an issue before. The fire wasn’t an issue before. The connectivity wasn’t an issue before somebody else comes in with this idea on paper to develop something to the East, which that development, by the way, as I understand the

01:19:45,100	history, has already failed twice. This is the third go round with that, with the Clover Grove land. So whether it works or not, I don’t know. But this comes into the picture and now all of a sudden connectivity and fire access becomes an issue.

01:20:02,000	And it feels to me like the land that I purchased is now being asked to bear the burden of this other development, because what we were proposing has been approved three times, and now they come into the picture.

01:20:24,470	Now there’s these new requirements, and so it feels, um, it feels kind of like unfair, like changing the, the ground rules after the game had already been set. We did, um, you know, in an effort to try to be reasonable and, and to work with them with the Clover Grove people, we did pay higher, Abe to look at the Snake Road thing, the possibilities.

01:20:49,000	Um, and I did that kind of as the with the idea of, of, uh, trying not to waste things, trying not trying to be a good shepherd of the land, because maybe there’s some good uses that could be made, you know? So we were just kind of being open to the possibilities and listening to what our, what our neighbors needed.

01:21:05,230	Abe did tell us. Abe told us, well, it’s possible to build this road, but it’s going to be a tricky piece of roadway to build. Um, 8 to 10%. The the cobblestone loop Road had an incident this last winter where a city plow lost control and just skidded down the street, and Commissioner Will Gardner’s

01:21:31,170	wife’s car was caught up in the blade of this snowplow and totaled. Right, because these are dangerous streets and, um, the you know, when we say that the fire code requires something. Well, the Bismarck fire code looks at this exactly like Abe had just said.

01:21:51,630	Like what is like, where do you make these measurements? It’s kind of I was going to say political job, but it’s more like a, like a, a professional judgment call, whether you whether you use the minor streets or the major streets, because these, uh, fire access, the fire equipment can go down all of these streets. Right.

01:22:13,000	So in a very literal sense, the fire equipment can use all the streets that are on this, on this plot. So there’s some judgment being exercised there. And other cities like Des Moines and Bismarck, um, make make a different judgment call than what is currently being made with this fire department compared to the the past ones.

01:22:35,800	Um, let’s see. So, yeah, Abe, Abe did say it’s possible. It’s just really unattractive road to try to build. Um, the other piece for me is that the we’re trying to maintain good relations with the neighbors on like, these, these folks here, if you can see this tiny little cursor, um, I’ve met with them,

01:23:03,000	and they they don’t want a snake road back down here. It’s they didn’t. And maybe maybe they’ll address that or talk to you folks about that. But we are not in this business to try to make people bitter about what they’ve purchased for their homes and for their families. So, um.

01:23:24,370	I guess in a in a sense, the if we had never had a look at that snake road, we wouldn’t be here today. Like if you guys go out there, you’re gonna you better tape your ankles because you’re going to twist your ankles going down that road, going down that hill.

01:23:45,800	It is a steep, steep thing and it’s not really fit. It’s kind of a pipe dream in my view, for what we’re, um, we’re looking at. We looked at it, we looked. We tried to not waste things, not waste the resources that God has given us. But this is not feasible. What we’re talking about here.

01:24:00,100	And so a lot of good things are being held up by something that is just kind of in like, more of an ideological thing than, um, a practical engineering reality. That’s how we’re looking at it. Mike, when you talk about this, uh, you spoke with the neighbors on the Snake Road.

01:24:19,730	Are you talking clover, or are you talking neighbors in Keidels? The existing Keidelss? Well, the neighbor, I guess in In Clover would be, um, the developer. And we have met with him several times as well. Yeah.

01:24:39,070	And, and his sister and we’re trying to like, we’re just trying to be like, we try to make this a win win for everybody if we possibly could. And it just. He doesn’t want the snake road either. So it’s just like it feels like it’s just being jammed out our throats. Um, for unfair reasons. Historically. Questions for Mike. Thank you. Thanks for your service here, folks.

01:25:07,000	Appreciate it. Again, we’re taking comments or questions on item number five. My name is Justin Glaser. I live on 230 Cobblestone Loop. So I am one of those neighbors that Mike has met with. Um, I kind of know all too well about what just even Cobblestone Loops Hill does.

01:25:43,470	Many of you may recall that there was a house that was hit on that hill after a truck rolled down it. That was my house. Okay. Um, my biggest issue is, is that we all bought our lots, pick them out based off of the original plat, right.

01:26:07,170	And the dollar values based off of the views that we would have. And now all of a sudden, everybody wants to change the game. And that doesn’t sit right with me. It’s been recorded multiple times, which Abe mentioned. And now we want to change the game.

01:26:29,630	Who compensates us for the loss of value because now we don’t have a view lot and we got some nasty snake road sitting behind us that Mike would have to try and cram a bunch of houses into to try and pay for it. And nobody’s going to want to build on those lots. There’s not one flat piece of ground on any of it. So that’s those are just my comments.

01:26:56,100	I’m a little frustrated that it’s been recorded multiple times, and now we want to change the game. Do we have any questions? Thank you. Thanks. Anyone else? Renee Lafferty uh, I’m at. 222 Cobblestone Loop.

01:27:30,530	Uh, we were the first house up there in that division, and, uh, it’s been a long time coming that the land to the east of us would be available for sale, which we would very much like to do to expand our lots of little narrow from front to back. And we just like to have a little bit more land back there.

01:27:47,270	But every developer that’s owned that property, um, they said, well, you know, that’s going to be kind of towards the end of the development. But when we get to that point, we work something out with you. Um, I’ve been through this is my third developer that I’ve spoken with when I’ve talked with Mike about the possibility of doing that.

01:28:02,530	And each time it’s been based on a similar plat map that’s been approved by this commission and by the city commission, it’s changed a little bit each time. But we’re at a point now where, um, that road could change the dynamic entirely. It may be through that, um, cul de sac. It may be in a different spot.

01:28:24,430	It could change the dynamics to the to the south of us as well. And so I’m at the point where, you know, I’m a patient person, and I just like to be able to acquire a little bit of land behind my house so I can do some nice things with, with some landscaping back there.

01:28:40,430	And I think it’s time that we get this approved so that we can do that. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Any other comments or questions? Item number five. I’ll call the last time for comments on item number five. With none. I’ll close public hearing. We turn it back to the commission.

01:29:21,430	Chair Robinson, I’ve got a couple questions, and I don’t even know who to ask him of. Uh. The fire part is what I’m really kind of struggling with is my main concern about this whole thing.

01:29:41,370	So if this was approved multiple times in the past, what changed? Was, is are we to make the assumption that the previous fire chief was wrong when he looked at this stuff? Or is this something that just got missed? However many, multiple times that nobody realized that this wasn’t in compliance? The other thing is, what do we do in the future? Even if we do apply,

01:29:58,330	even if we do approve this as it is right now, and when you get into the future and it starts to get to be, the racial gets to be worse and worse the farther south they develop, what happens to the master plan at that point? Are we basically

01:30:14,870	saying, okay, Mike, you know what, you’re going to be able to develop this, but you have no way of getting past the fire part of it in your in your future plans going south. So I guess you just bought yourself some pasture. We’re not going to allow you to do anything in the future.

01:30:30,170	Like I said, I don’t know who to ask these questions to and who’s got the answers. But you know, the fire part is the part that I’m most concerned with right now. Chair Robinson. Commissioner Renner, I’m just going to I think Jarek kind of hit on it.

01:30:49,070	I mean, we have we’ve had some staff turnover since plats have been approved. Um, obviously you get different people, different things. Um, I just want to read the definition of what they have for remoteness in the fire code, and I’ll let you decide what you want to do with it. But remoteness is where two fire apparatus access roads are required.

01:31:09,900	They shall be placed a distance apart, equal to not less than one half of the length of maximum overall diagonal dimension, which I showed you on the map of the property or area to be served measured in a straight line between accesses. I also have access to the commentary section of the code, which is just the written portion.

01:31:27,700	After. To try to explain further in depth of what this means, uh, this concept is similar to the one dealing with remoteness of exits in. And then it says a section ten seven, uh, which is a section of means of egress for any building, um, interior movements.

01:31:46,730	It has the same rule. The the diagonal can’t be more than that. So they follow that same concept in that, um, one of the primary reasons for multiple access roads is to ensure that if one access road is blocked or otherwise unavailable, another will allow access by the fire department.

01:32:09,630	Therefore, when more than one access road is required, those roads must be separated by enough distance to avoid a situation where both would be blocked or unavailable simply because they are too close to one another. That’s the section. So I don’t know if you had any other questions. Do we know how far the fire department is from here? I’d have to check on that. Commissioner Lang.

01:32:37,970	Can I add to that? Make it even more scarier. How much time if we. How much time does it take to get up there from the fire department? Do we know that comment.? That would also be a chief thing. Commissioner Mudder, I know generally they like to stick below six minutes.

01:33:03,230	The other. The other um, I’m just going to go and I want to give you as much info as I can. Um, the definition of a fire apparatus access road. I’m in the bes, so give me a second here. Anybody got a. Joke? All right.

01:33:51,800	Fire apparatus, access, road definition from definitions of the fire code. Road that provides fire apparatus access from a fire station to a facility, building or portion thereof. This is a general term inclusive of all other terms, such as the fire lane, public street, private street, parking lot, lane, and access roadway. And then this is the commentary fire apparatus.

01:34:18,500	Access roads are required to be all weather surface roads that are designed for the weight type of emergency vehicle that may be used on the road, and a specific surface material is required for a fire apparatus, apparatus access roadway.

01:34:34,530	It is up to the fire code official to decide whether the surface will support the load of the anticipated emergency vehicles, and then it says. The last note is it should be noted that this is a general term intended to include any private roadway providing the required access to a building. As such, private driveways could be included and subject to these provisions. That’s what I got for you. So. I.

01:35:01,000	Almost have to have, uh, diagram up here again. But why wouldn’t the diagonals begin and end at 19th? Because the fire apparatus access road requirement states that road. Excuse me? Road that provides fire apparatus access from a fire station to a facility, building or portion thereof.

01:35:31,000	If I am reading this term correctly, it’s not to the street. This is to the building which the fire department is serving. That may be where definitions between different communities may get mixed up. But as we are reading it and I say we inn staff, this is the conclusion that we have come to.

01:35:59,600	Chair Robinson so with that map, bring that back up again, please. Okay. You’re starting to measure that the the northeast to southwest line. You’re starting to measure that right from 19th Street. Correct. But isn’t lot 19 there with the drainage ditch and stuff, is there. There isn’t anything sitting on there, isn’t there.

01:36:22,000	Why why would you start measuring from there? Why wouldn’t you start from the property line right there on the northeast corner, the same way you’re measuring from the end of the tip on the southeast of lift Riggs Court there.

01:36:40,370	Why wouldn’t you measure it the same way? I’ll bet you, if you measure those the same way and start from the property line that exists there on the north east corner, I’ll bet you you’re going to be in compliance. Commissioner Renner. Um, yes, I did offer both of these diagonal distances because I thought it would be up for up to interpretation.

01:36:58,630	This 2900ft would be, um, a similar diagonal distance from the far northwest corner to the far southeast corner. But I thought that it might be better to show the corner of a lot that it has a use to a corner of another proposed lot that has a use in which I think that the distance that would be comparing against would be this 2700 foot distance.

01:37:16,500	But that’s what I’m saying when you look at that, that line that starts at the northeast, why is it starting all the way at the property line there? You’re starting at up at the end of lift Riggs Court on the southeast.

01:37:31,100	Why wouldn’t you start from the a property line of one of the dwellings, maybe right off of 19th Street, the one that that abuts to the 19th Street on the northeast. Start measuring from there down to the southwest. Why wouldn’t you? Yeah, right. Absolutely could. Right there.

01:37:52,170	If you started right there and measured it that way, you’d probably be in compliance because 19th isn’t there’s nothing happening in 19th Street. There’s no residence, building or part of on 19th Street on lot 19. Um, I guess the my interpretation was one, not one, not less than one half of the length of the maximum overall diagonal dimension of the property or area to be served.

01:38:13,970	I would suspect that this distance from this northeast corner, right here to here, is less than this distance right here, in which it would not be the maximum diagonal distance. I’m sure it’s less. Which wouldn’t that make you bring you into compliance? It would not be the maximum diagonal distance in my interpretation of the fire code.

01:38:35,630	It would be the second highest diagonal distance if we were to measure it from the other location. Um, I would also like to, um, maybe point out something that Dave touched on, you know, maybe 40 minutes ago now when we were having all of these discussions with the developer and the engineer, this this area, um, to the east

01:39:01,800	was not included in any of those discussions. This was going to be unplanned. And what we had through our continued discussions offered as an alternative, a compromise to constructing that Snake Road was a memorandum of understanding, acknowledging future connection to the East.

01:39:26,900	And in response to us saying, hey, this unplanned area outside of the plat, maybe we acknowledge that there should be a connection in the future. The response to that was to include it in the plat and to memorialize that there would not be a connection to the East, which is which was a little confrontational.

01:39:49,330	But so what you’re saying is, if basically if you left off lift Riggs Court and all the homes around there, that would be in compliance, then. That would be a compromise. If, if, if we were, if we had if we weren’t blocking ourselves from establishing connection in the future and there was an acknowledgement that connection should be established or will be established to the east in

01:40:08,630	the future. We were, we were, we were willing to work with that as as kind of a stepping stone in the right direction. AB you were shaking your head. No. No, not. Without the memorandum. Meaning a road would go. In their eyes. It would only be in compliance. If we agreed to a future roadway.

01:40:34,700	But that’s what I’m saying for for a compromise here. If a if a person got rid of lift Riggs court. basically right now got rid of those lots around lift Riggs. Would this work? Can you make this work? I think there has to be some kind of a compromise here, I think, to make this go.

01:41:02,900	Well, I’m not. This isn’t my line of work. I don’t really pretend to know the details all that well, but to me, if you’re talking about compromises, then what about the fire? The supposed fire issue? Like what happened to that is that’s no longer a concern. If those were gone, if those were gone. Correct.

01:41:24,900	Am I right in the way I’m looking at this? If those were gone, then it changes the length of that line. Right? And it brings you in compliance with the with the IFC code. Correct. Am I reading am I understanding that correctly? Um, chair Robinson. Commissioner Yes.

01:41:45,730	It would reduce the length of the line and it would also it would also not, um, prevent future connection to the east, which the current plant would plat would as soon as we have a residential property in the way of continued right of way, the chances of that being replanted for continued right of way is almost nothing. Um.

01:42:08,270	Tearing down a house to to build a road is always going to be looked at unfavorably in the future. And our best course of action is to establish that right of way right now, or establish an understanding that that right of way will be established.

01:42:24,170	Um, I think is is the is in the best interests of our long term development of this area. So I guess we, you know, we could sign a memorandum, but that’s a taking under the Constitution.

01:42:47,730	You’re taking my property by forcing me to do something that I don’t want to do, and I don’t have the money to do, and nobody will ever have the money to do. Well. For no good reason. But then you don’t have to build the road right now either. Is the thing.

01:43:00,900	Yeah, but I can’t sell the property with this, with this burden on it. Who’s going to who’s going to want to do this? Nobody. Right? It’s so to me, it’s very fraught with problems for the city to try to do this. It’s.

01:43:27,800	And Commissioner Renner, he can correct me if I’m wrong here, but when he’s asking about eliminating Lyford Court, I’m assuming we’re looking at 4 or 6 lots. There. It probably gives you. Uh. Both compliance and the ability to expand the the plan going south. It probably does hog tie you a little bit in this area, but. Where is Lyford courts? I don’t even know. What is it? The far northeast corner. It’s a southeast corner..

01:43:57,070	It’s a cul de sac. It’s all of this. Cul de sac stuff. So these these lots that are touching on the cul de sac. Yeah. And to help Mike out, are you understanding Commissioner Renner’s question and intention? Right. But this is the south east corner.

01:44:27,000	And I thought we were looking at the measurements on the northeast corner of the diagonal. I was originally thinking the northeast, but that was that wouldn’t that wouldn’t get us in compliance. But by changing the diagonal line from the northwest to the southeast, by changing the length of that one, it does get us in compliance. Right.

01:44:47,330	But I understand staff is saying they the diagonal should run all the way to this tippy, tippy corner in the southeast instead of to the end of the existing developed property, which is the property to be served. Right. But that’s what I’m saying. If we get rid of those properties in a shortens that line. Yeah. I understand now what you’re talking about.

01:45:03,730	It’s, you know, yes, you’re losing some lots. You’re losing some potential sales, but it’s giving you the ability to proceed with the development. To. And it’s giving you the opportunity. like Chair Robinson said, it gives you the ability to potentially start doing some more development to the south on those future lots.

01:45:23,100	Before you get that line so pushed that you have to have another point of access. Well, I’m I’m quite emotional about all this right now, so I’m not in a good spot to make a decision like that. That is this important.

01:45:43,070	I’d want to talk it over and calm down a little bit, but, um, my, my sense. So none of nothing to the east of none of the yellow stuff would we could ever develop. From. From the. Bridge, from the from Lyford court to the north. From the east? Yes. On the east. That’ll be the price of the road. Yeah.

01:46:05,900	They’re saying take these lots away around the cul. De sac and just make this one big lot pretty much for right now. And this would be all road. Well, not right now. It’s just one big lot in the future. Well, it’d be one big road. That’s what we’re talking.

01:46:22,070	About in the future would end up being a road somewhere. I know, but people aren’t stupid. They’re not going to be building stuff there. I mean, it’s just so impractical.

01:46:36,430	What do we what do we really doing? It’s if they have an issue with the steepness, like take it up with God. I didn’t create this hill. Right. This is the way Mandan was made. What do we what are we trying to change? Like just by whim, we get to. We get to do what nature doesn’t allow us to do. It makes no sense. To me to.

01:46:51,100	Meet the codes as at the city has to meet the code. Requirements. May I? Yes. Okay. And then, um, just I agree that not building the road is always going to be more affordable than building the road.

01:47:22,600	And I also think that I agree that the idea that the land, the developer ability of the land immediately adjacent to the access road, maybe that wouldn’t be, I don’t know how it would pencil out, but maybe that wouldn’t be profitable. But that access road, that secondary access road unlocks it benefits all of the properties shown in the master plan here.

01:47:43,100	If you could bring that up, you know these properties to the south benefit from the secondary fire apparatus, road. And while properties immediately adjacent this might not be super lucrative for a developer, it’s it’s a necessary cost to develop large, large neighborhoods like this. And it benefits the entire neighborhood, not just the adjacent properties.

01:48:12,430	The only thing I’m worried about, though, when you when you talk about that, is we’re talking about a ten, 10% grade. And I was hearing stories of accidents and stuff and trust me, I have been on some of these roads going up and down. That’s also very dangerous too.

01:48:32,000	That’s my I have really two concerns here is is both sides is that if you put a 10% grade on there, you better have an experienced driver, because I’m telling you right now, it can happen where somebody can roll rolls into a house or, or wrecks a car or or of course, my dad’s favorite line when he saw Somebody in the ditch because

01:48:52,270	they didn’t. Didn’t go down the hill properly. So I, I’m a little concerned about that. 10% too. I’m going to add to that. Um, so you referenced Lakota Drive. It’s 15. Around those curves. I believe the speed limit is reduced there.

01:49:10,530	So my thought is if a fire truck is going to take that road, they’re going to go the most direct route to get to this neighborhood. Are they even going to use this snaky, windy road? No, that’s why I asked that question. Why wouldn’t you measure off a 19th? Yeah. And fourth Avenue. Yeah.

01:49:30,270	And I’ve been I’ve walked this property with a the past developer that had it for sale. And it is incredibly steep. And I just don’t see how you can get a road on that plot that’s feasible. Chair Robinson. Chair Mudder chair or chair? Commissioner Commissioner Lang.

01:49:56,630	Um, I did, um, do some quick research in response to the existing cobblestone loop being the exact same steepness as what we’re describing. And what I found in my quick research was that cobblestone loops, max existing grade is about 14%, and that the max existing grade for kind of what my recollection of the Snake Road was, was 9.4%.

01:50:19,730	So, uh, almost about a 5% difference between the existing grade and the future grade. Those are not exact numbers. I could get you better numbers if that would aid, um, in future decision making. And then, um, what has been described as an extremely circuitous, back and forth, switchback type road? It is not that it is.

01:50:41,730	It is, um, closer to a line than it is to an S, if that makes sense. Chair Robinson, just to reiterate what Commissioner Lang said to I, I can’t see a fire truck trying to get up some kind of a steep, pointy grade in the middle of the winter.

01:51:02,530	If it’s icy on there, they’re going to go to one of the other approaches anyway. So it’s almost like you’re requiring this road. But in reality, is it ever going to get used in an emergency? Probably not. You know, so I don’t know. I, I’m, I’m still at the point where I, I would like to see us get into compliance here somehow without them having to build that road.

01:51:24,900	That’s the way I’m leaning. And I don’t know if that’s something that, Mike, that you’re willing to take another look at if we, you know, if we, you know, if we deny the application or preliminary at this time, if that’s something that you’re willing at looking at to try to change that, to

01:51:44,900	get it into compliance for this time, and then maybe see if that helps you with your future development further to the south. Well. I. I would I would keep the discussions going, but I’m not going to be screwing any of these people. I’m I’m not I’m not doing that. I’m not I’m not. Going to I’m never going.

01:52:05,170	To agree to the state road. I’m sorry. Maybe there’s other options. And that’s what I’m trying to avoid. Too. Marxist dream. Like what? What we like. It is not real, real world stuff.

01:52:22,870	So if there’s something that is realistic and I just have to give and I don’t get, I don’t get to have these lots, then I don’t get to have the lots, but. Well, that’s that’s what I’m trying to avoid too, is trying to put this road in because I don’t see where that’s helping anybody. I could interject commissioners, uh, you you wouldn’t necessarily have to deny it. You could table it as well. And we could revisit.

01:52:41,800	Would that allow us to speed things up? Yeah, I believe that would, uh, you could avoid having to public notice it again. That’s all. That sounds fair. To me. If we look at tabling.. Chair Robinson, this is Commissioner McLean. Can I say something to you? May.

01:53:04,870	Um, so I have some pretty big concerns about this whole project. This has been approved twice before, and Mr. Lithwick bought the property under that premises. And I’m assuming. And now we’re changing the game. He’s not wrong. We’re changing the game for him right in the middle of the game. We’ve changed the rules. And so I have a big concern.

01:53:26,370	It’s not like these fire codes have changed in the last couple of years, since the last time it was approved. Yet we’re now we come up with these fire codes, and I don’t think it’s really the city staff fault either. But all of a sudden we have to follow these rules. And there different rules than what was previous done.

01:53:41,630	Somehow, some way. So my concern is this person bought this land and now we’re saying, oh, by the way, you’re going to lose how many lots you’re going to lose. And revenue, even though you bought it to develop it. And we’re changing the rules in midstream for him.

01:54:00,500	And now we’re going to come back and say, listen, you have to lose these five lots or whatever it’s going to end up being and you can’t sell them. Even though he bought it under the impression this was already a slam dunk. That’s a concern to me. It was not approved, not once, but twice by two prior developers.

01:54:16,330	And nothing was about this road. And I have concerns about the road. I don’t care what kind of grade it is. You want to bring a fire truck up that road and icy conditions. I don’t think that’s a great thing either. So that’s just my statements on this one.

01:54:30,370	I think there probably is a compromise, but I don’t think Mr. Rig has to compromise more than anybody else. And I don’t think he has to pay for a road for a different developer either. That’s not fair. Either. Thank you, commissioners Chair Robinson. Thank you. We’ve had plenty of discussion. Um. Mike, your thoughts, we talked about possibly tabling or denial.

01:55:01,730	Tabling is fine if if you want to have further discussion. Okay. I mean, if you’re asking me that, that’s I’ll keep talking. Neither one satisfies you. But come back to you folks, right? Yes.

01:55:32,730	And and personally, I would like to get some clarification because the truck is not going to take the spiral staircase to a fire here. They’re they’re going to take 19th. They’re going to come up Eighth Avenue or Fourth Avenue rather. It’s just the way it is. Um, that’s why I’m curious as to why the measurement doesn’t begin at that corner.

01:55:53,630	My son has a tattoo and it’s in Latin, so I don’t understand it, but I understand that translation is time flies. Death approaches. Yeah. You know, this is, what, two more months now. So, like, nothing is going to happen this summer here on me with this kind. Of. You know, we have people on this commission. They, you know, they have to defend the city code.

01:56:28,800	It’s but I, I’m still curious as to why the measurement doesn’t start at 19th and fourth. Um. Because quite frankly, that’s the only road they’re going to enter the development in. Or what would ultimately be eighth. They would come up that road also.

01:57:00,370	But the thing that does appeal to me in what you’re proposing is that so that the 80 to 160 acres has been conveyed to a non-profit, but I care deeply about what happens with that.

01:57:20,730	And so if you’re saying that this would be like some discussion could help us make it easier for like a retreat center or something beautiful to happen on that land, then that would be that would be worth exploring. It seems to me. I think what we’re trying to reach for is how to how to make this happen for you and the city of Mandan, for that matter. Um. Uh. We’re trying to figure out how to make this work. You.

01:57:45,100	And I appreciate the staff to you guys. I, I know I get a little hot under the collar, but you guys are trying to do your best. I appreciate that. Chair Robinson, I think that we have to get, like, your question answered.

01:58:02,730	I think those are a couple of questions we have to get answered before we can even move forward. I know that if we deny it, it’s going to cost more time than tabling it. In my opinion.

01:58:18,970	But Mitch, I’m assuming is not in the room to answer some of these questions, but I think we have to have him there next time, or somebody that can answer all the questions we have. That’s how I feel. Yeah, I would I would agree with that as well. I’d feel much more comfortable making a decision. Can I make a motion to table this? Are we still in the public hearing? Uh, I closed. It.

01:58:53,000	Do we have a second? Motion? Motion from Commissioner Mudder, second from Commissioner Renner to table the request for preliminary plat and zone change for Keidels. South Heart Terrace, fifth edition. Any questions with none. Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner Lang. Yes. Commissioner Mudder. Yes. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner McLean. Yes. Commissioner Gardner I’m sorry. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair Robinson.

01:59:30,730	Yes. Motion to table is approved and I would just recommend next time we see it. Uh, representative from the fire department. Chair Robinson. We’ll we’ll make sure that happens. Okay. Thank you. Uh, any other business. Chair? Commissioner? I just have one other announcement.

01:59:58,000	I we it’s tentative for now, but I know our next scheduled meeting for May is the Wednesday 27th due to the holiday. So I just wanted to remind you that. And we’re still working out details. Um, if possible, we may have one more meeting for, um, just the commissioners and others for the zoning code.

02:00:19,330	So I know we met before, had some changes and things. If we can work that out. We were thinking of probably trying to have that meeting before the commission meeting that Wednesday. So just to give you a heads up on that, um, if we do, we’ll obviously send out notice and and let you know, but that’s kind of the, the rolling pattern.

02:00:36,900	Uh, I know Dave and their team have been working really hard to get, uh, those questions we had from the last session answered and all those things. So just to make you aware. Okay. Thank you. And with nothing else, I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn. I’ll make the motion to adjourn. I guess. I’ll second.