00:00:06,830	No. The time is 5:30 and I will call the Mandan Planning and Zoning Commission meeting for July 27th. Roll call please. Commissioner Horn. Here. Commissioner Huber. Here. Commissioner Lange here. Commissioner Mudder. Mayor Mayor Froelich here. Commissioner IntVeld here. Commissioner McLean. Here. Commissioner Smith here. Commissioner Hammond here. Commissioner Gardner here. Commissioner Renner here. Chair Robinson here.

00:00:46,870	Next item. We will consider approval of the minutes from our June 22nd meeting. Do we have any changes? Or questions? I’ll move to approve the minutes. Second. Motion by Commissioner Smith. Second by Commissioner McLean to approve the minutes of June 22nd. Any questions? None. Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes, Commissioner. Huber. Yes. Commissioner. Lange. Yes.

00:01:28,000	Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner. IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner. McLean. Yes. Commissioner. Smith. Yes. Commissioner Hammond. Yes. Commissioner. Gardner. Yes. Commissioner Renner. Yes. Chair. Robinson. Yes. Minutes are approved. We’ll move on to our public hearings. Uh, we have one item tonight, and that’s considering revisions to the Mandan land use and and zoning code. Rachel. Good evening, commissioners.

00:02:00,570	Um, Rachel. Okay. With, uh, interstate engineering, is your interim planner. I am going to start the slideshow, which hopefully you’ll be able to see. Um, I just want to make a note.

00:02:18,770	Um, at the start of this, that the land use code discussion tonight does not include the data center section of the code. It is in your drafts marked as reserved. Um, there will be an updated draft code on or before August 6th. So staff is taking into consideration, um, numerous public comments and focusing on measurable outcomes.

00:02:39,570	And so they will be bringing that forward and putting it online before August 6th. So, um, that’s not in here tonight. I just want to make that clear. Um, and I will move on with the remainder of the explanation of the land use code. Okay. So I’m going to start with the project timeline.

00:02:56,630	Um, this project has been going on since fall of 2023. Um, the city and Stantec began working on background and analysis and a code audit in winter of 2023. The first working group met in spring of 2024. The second working group meeting was held.

00:03:17,500	There was a completion of a Best Practices summary and a review of an original draft in summer of 2024. Meetings. Three through five of the working group were held. Um. There were surveys of builders and developers. There was a completed draft of section 109, which is the subdivision code, and there was an open house in fall of 2024.

00:03:37,000	There was a first draft of the complete ordinance, and there was staff review. And then in winter of 2024 and most of 2025, the project was on hold because the planner with the city had left and the Stantec contract had concluded. And so, as you all know, um, the city contracted with Interstate Engineering as interim planner back in spring of 2025.

00:04:02,970	By the end of 2025, conversations with staff had kind of come to this should probably get done right? Um, because it is so important to the city. Sorry, your eardrums out.

00:04:23,600	Um, so in February of 2026, we held a working session to review the existing draft and then to determine any additional needed updates that were in kind of limbo from the previous draft. Um, and then in June of 2026, we held a final working session. So those were open to the public. Although I do not believe we had any general members of the public who ended up attending. Okay. So some frequently asked questions as noted.

00:04:43,070	The first one is why is interstate engineering work on this project? That’s why, um, as your interim planner, we are simply finishing this project up. Um, we have received a question on why isn’t there a red line version of the code available? The code updates are substantial enough that a red line version. I did try it. I tried it a few times.

00:04:59,970	It doesn’t make any sense because there are so many red lines, sections, moved, sections deleted and then replaced. It just it doesn’t substantially add anything to it. There is, um, quite a number of resources on the website, which is the zoning rewrite study page on the Mandan site.

00:05:18,200	Um, and so there are, you know, everything that Stantec did while they were working on the project, plus the drafts in front of you tonight. And we’ll go over major changes tonight. Why was this project needed? Land use codes generally need regular updates, but occasionally a total overhaul is needed to modernize language, take into account new uses, etc..

00:05:40,570	Um, our data centers included in the ordinances before you tonight? No, they are not. And then what are the major changes? We’ll talk about those. Um, to start at the beginning, though. The zoning code audit was done by Stantec back in the fall of 2023. They audited chapters 101, 105, 109 and 115.

00:06:03,530	So 101 is was currently is administration and planning, 105 is district regulations. So that’s kind of think about that as if 101 is where the Planning Commission resides. And planning staff reside. And then district regulations are where your zoning districts are and what’s allowed to be done within each zoning district.

00:06:24,400	109 is land subdivision and 115 is the right of way. So in the two drafts that are in front of you tonight, are I have a typo 101 and 109. So 101 is now the, um, land Development and Public Services. Chapter 101 Zoning Ordinance.

00:06:46,700	And then chapter 109 is Land subdivision. And 115 is not included. And we’ll talk about that later. Um, in the findings of the zoning code audit, just to review, I think most of you have seen this, but, um, districts are similar. There’s several districts that no longer exist but are still on the zoning map.

00:07:04,900	There are several districts in the ordinance that aren’t used on the map. Some district descriptions and uses don’t match. There’s outdated language. There’s no administrative review of some uses. Um, there’s a list of uses with special standards that needed to be modernized. Um, creative uses and small uses aren’t addressed right now.

00:07:26,300	Again, that’s that modernization aspect, right? Um, setbacks throughout the code could be modernized. Park dedications are limited to a payment in lieu options, not in land dedication, which is allowed through the Century Code. Um, some design standards are recommendations or suggestions rather than requirements. Right of way, which should be reexamined and updated to current best practices.

00:07:48,500	Landscaping ordinances don’t have a clear set of standards, and the administrative process is unclear. So this is the current code that we’re operating under right now. And these are the findings from the Stantec Zoning Code audit. Um, public involvement. There was a community survey with 500 plus users of the code that was completed. That survey is available on the website.

00:08:07,000	Um, the top three issues that were identified by survey respondents were one, to adjust the uses that are permitted in Mandan to include those that are more modern, two to require more park dedication land with development of new subdivisions, and three to clarify residential and commercial uses intended for areas surrounding the downtown

00:08:26,570	Mandan business district. And then I have six, but I think it was actually seven. Working group sessions were held to evaluate specific code sections, provide education, and determine direction. So the major changes are within the landscaping section.

00:08:52,630	The park dedication section, access management, right of way widths, new zoning districts, specific use type updates, administrative changes, and parking and driveways. And I’ll go through each of these in a little bit more detail. So under landscaping, um, this was one of the sections that went under more work this year. In 2026. And so it was updated based on the request of local developers to more closely mimic Bismarck’s code.

00:09:13,200	They found it kind of confusing to go back and forth. Um, it lays out street tree requirements and commercial and residential areas, especially in residential areas. It provides a little bit of flexibility for where those trees can be placed.

00:09:32,230	Um, it lays out very clear buffer zone requirements utilizing tables and then updates perimeter and island planting requirements again in a really clear fashion where there’s not really a guessing whether like Mark will accept it as a as a landscape plan. So, um, it moves some of those decisions to administrative decisions as well. And then it modernizes the expected landscaping.

00:09:53,030	So including islands in larger parking lots, etc.. Um park dedication. So this allows the park district to require land or payment in lieu as allowed per the Century Code. Um, it applies to commercial or residential properties with tiered approaches based on land development style and density, which basically means, for example, if you have under a certain number of homes in a

00:10:14,070	residential subdivision, you have one requirement for a dedication or payment in lieu. And if you have a greater number, then you have a different requirement, right? So it’s it’s tiered based on your development access management I know you can’t read this.

00:10:29,130	It’s just a sample of what’s in your in your code books in front of you. But this updates access spacing and allowances to modern best practices. And it clarifies the intent of different street classification types. So it provides clear distinctions between arterial collector and local roadways. Um, right of way widths. It.

00:10:52,430	This section widens the minimum width of arterials and classifies principal and minor arterials. It creates two standards for local roads, which are residential and non-residential. And then it adds rural standards and it adds rural standards because one of the new zoning districts is rural residential.

00:11:19,170	So, um, there are five new zoning districts are our rural residential would allow for rural development on well and septic um, intended to support development within the TJ um at a minimal amount and then minimum lot size is 1.5 acres for that. There’s an RM industrial, which is very heavy industrial uses and proposed the proposed zoning map limits this use to the refinery.

00:11:40,530	Downtown fringe has been rewritten to provide a more logical transition zone. It eliminates drive thrus, motor vehicle service and retail Group B from the district, and then the proposed zoning map reduces the footprint of the downtown fringe district. And I keep referencing the proposed map and I swear I’ll come back to that.

00:12:01,900	Um, the neighborhood mixed use, um, creates a forum based code concept to support vertical and horizontal mixed use redevelopment. So form based code is focused more on what the building structure is, how it’s situated on the lot, and what the the feel of it to surrounding buildings is, rather than necessarily the uses inside of it.

00:12:20,130	Obviously there are still uses that are defined within the neighborhood mixed use, but it is intended to be more of a form based concept. Um, it’s not on the proposed map. So that means it’s available for someone to utilize as a development style. Um, to be a little bit more creative in their development.

00:12:38,170	And then CMU corridor mixed use is suited for infill development and reuse along auto oriented corridors. Um, it’s for larger scale commercial uses. Again, I don’t believe there’s any on the proposed map. Um, but it’s an available zoning district. I’m going to talk more about the zoning map later. Um, but just know we’re not proposing any changes to the zoning map tonight. Okay.

00:13:02,030	Then there, um, specific use types. So there were specific uses within the code that needed updating. Um, whether because they were allowed maybe as conditional, but had become more accepted or because, um, there are a lot of conditional uses within the code right now, and it puts a pretty heavy burden on planning commissioners, um, especially when there’s kind of minor

00:13:25,130	distinctions between uses. So the code, um, this winter had a number of uses that were shifted from conditional use permits into more of an administrative approval because there are extra requirements put into the new code.

00:13:51,170	The example I’m going to talk about right now is, um, multi-use shops, because that’s one that interstate worked on as we as the interim planner going through this process this spring. Um, you guys have obviously reviewed a lot of multi use shops in the last, um, year that that I’ve been working with you. And one of the things that has come up frequently is that because these uses are so similar to other commercial uses, right.

00:14:11,700	Some of the major differences are simply that it has a garage door. Um, it puts a lot of potential subjectivity on the planning and zoning commission to make that determination versus looking at it as an administratively approved use where we’re clearly defining what the form of the building should be, and laying out those regulations within the code

00:14:35,500	itself. So again, you’re modernizing that language and the use types, making it clear that this is an accepted use of development. It’s only allowed in certain zoning districts. It’s got certain requirements for buffering. And it’s not asking you all to make decisions, just kind of based on how the neighbors feel about a particular project. Right.

00:14:53,100	Um, it’s it’s putting that into a clear, objective review pattern. And a lot of the uses that this has happened, um, that have moved from conditional use permits into permitted uses have extra standards so that they are very clearly laid out what is and isn’t allowed.

00:15:13,430	Um, it also utilizes a use table that clearly shows whether a use is permitted, permitted, conditionally or not permitted. It clarifies the structure for determination of use types. So if someone has an idea or concept that hasn’t been brought up before, it clarifies how that decision is made of what use type it fits under.

00:15:33,730	Um, it adds additional housing types and then it reserves data center sections for later review. Administrative changes. Um, again, it clarifies what review structure. It clarifies administrative requirements for like applications in both subdivision and zoning sections. It codifies the administrative appeal process. It creates additional administrative processes to streamline development for citizens.

00:16:02,070	So again those uses that would be that are currently conditional use permit, some of them have been moved to administratively approved permits. It moves um some conditional. I’m sorry, I just thought that one with additional standards and then it updates definitions, modernizes languages, terms and visual aids. And parking and driveways.

00:16:28,300	Um, so it removes exterior parking requirements for dwellings, reduces parking requirements for senior or affordable multi-unit buildings. Um, creates an allowance for on street parking adjacent to residential property to count towards minimum required parking. Reduces minimum parking for retail establishments to one space per 500, which is down from one space for 400. Um medical clinics. Minimum parking is now based on square footage rather than employees.

00:16:51,100	Um allowances for parking reductions can be reviewed and approved by the the planning department. Up to a reduction of 25% from minimum requirements. So it allows, you know, that professional judgment, um, to be reviewed within the code.

00:17:12,730	And then creation a proof of parking, which allows project owners to construct only 80% of required parking so long as the rest of the required parking area is preserved for future use if needed. And then it establishes minimum and maximum driveway widths so those recommendations are the they were recommendations not there in the draft. Um are very much in line with modern best practices for parking in a number of communities.

00:17:32,230	Um, parking minimums have actually been removed entirely, and some communities have gone to parking maximums. So it’s really about, um, reducing the amount of concrete and parking areas. Obviously, we live in North Dakota.

00:17:49,300	There’s cars still need parking, so I think it would be pretty hard for a North Dakota community to really completely remove parking requirements. But this is certainly a good step in the right direction. There. Um, so these were the goals of recent updates. So in the spring of 2026, the staff and consultant team goal has been to accept work that was done previously while making strategic updates to several sections.

00:18:14,370	And those several sections were landscaping, multi-use shops, park dedication, formatting and final shake, and identification of next steps. Those next steps are what I’m going to talk about now. Um, one of the next steps is the zoning map update. There’s still a few unresolved comments. It’s a big lift to update the zoning map at the same time as the zoning code.

00:18:33,570	There’s probably. I don’t want to take a guess at how many properties, but it’s quite a number of properties that will be impacted. Um, probably I think we think in a good way, but it’s still it’s a large administrative lift to to do all those letters and hold public hearings and stuff.

00:18:51,700	So the intention would be to pass the zoning code and then move to the zoning map update, um, application. So new applications are needed. These have been created. We’ll roll those out with the new codes and signs in a right of way. So signs.

00:19:14,700	Um, the draft from last winter did not include many updates to the sign regulations. Um, it was mildly updated and included a sign master plan. Um, but they should be reevaluated based on content neutral regulations. And so that’s one of the, um, places that staff has identified. Um, should come back and be updated and then right of way. Chapter 115 is to be reevaluated and updated.

00:19:37,100	Some sections have been incorporated into chapter 109, but it just needs some additional review before public hearing. Um, so in. Go back here.

00:19:55,930	So out of these kind of next steps, I want to make it clear to you that most of the time when a zoning code is passed or new land use code, it’s a massive document, right? There’s a ton of sections. There’s a ton of nuances. And while, um, writers can attempt to ensure that they’ve thought of every possible development scenario. A lot of times I don’t think I’ve ever seen a code that hasn’t needed some tweaks. Right.

00:20:15,030	And so between the data centers and some of these other outstanding issues, there are still, um, things that that do need to go back to be looked at. But the remainder of the code is in pretty good shape right now. And, has been sitting for a while with public comments. And so over time, public comment changes.

00:20:33,630	We know that this is a version that’s acceptable to the citizens of Mandan right now. And so that’s our recommendation is to recommend to the City Commission approval of the draft Land Use Code, sections 101 and 109, in whole as as presented, as well as the repeal and reservation of current section 105. I can answer any questions.

00:20:54,230	I know that was a ton of information. Questions for Rachel. Rachel. Just clarification. You want to redo the or tweak the sign code part of the code? After we do this? Correct. That’s what you’re asking. Okay. Yeah. There’s some minor updates that were done, but there are larger things that probably should be done.

00:21:14,300	But it’s a larger lift than going back and just getting this piece that’s been done, that’s been gone through a lot of public involvement. Thank, thank you for waiting on that. Yes. Chair Robinson. Rachel, I got a couple of things, uh, on the landscaping part where you’re talking about the buffer zones.

00:21:33,970	I’ll admit, I didn’t read this word for word. I, I know, I know, shame on me. Uh, there there was an issue in the past about the discrepancy on where you start figuring these buffer zones.

00:21:50,030	Is it going to be from lot line to lot line, or from building to building? Is that in there somewhere? Can I just missed it. Or I’m going to say I believe it is, but I will double check that. Because I know that did become an issue one time before. So I think that it’d be nice to see if that’s spelled out in there.

00:22:06,030	Um, I understand that the sign sign code part is going to be reviewed a little bit later, but is there is the way I understand it, the administrator, the administrative here in the city is going to be making a majority of the decisions on the signs instead of the mark

00:22:23,700	board. Is there going to be any recourse for somebody that doesn’t like the answer they get from the city, that they it could possibly be reviewed by Mark later.

00:22:40,700	So, Commissioner, um, that is actually one of the things I really like about this code is it really clearly lays out your appeal process. If you don’t like the decision that’s made administratively, you have a very clear appeal process all the way up through the court system, which I believe has always been the case. But this it really clearly spells it out. Thank you.

00:23:03,800	I would just like to comment, I think myself and Commissioner Huber, along with some developers and others, sat in on these early meetings. The the 2324, um, big part of it hopefully, is to reduce the number of requests for variances. Sure.

00:23:26,200	A handful of us would definitely like to see that, um, uh, if you take the last two years, I think at least eight, maybe nine months out of the year, we’re dealing with a variance request. So I’m looking for that to get reduced with this. Um, I do get the point where you talked about the redlining when Stan Tech’s intention was to strip the finish off this thing and repaint it.

00:23:47,670	So, uh, I get that the red line thing would not work the way we went through that process. Are there any further questions for Rachel at this time? Yeah, Rachel. Maybe just a generic question.

00:24:11,300	You mentioned you wanted to take care of the, uh, the ordinance part of it first, and then go back and do the the mapping part. What’s a reasonable time or realistic timeframe of having that completed that portion? Let Jordan answer that one. Uh Chair. Robinson Commissioner IntVeld, I think one of the things that we’re looking at is the number of parcels.

00:24:35,030	Um, as Rachel mentioned, one of the biggest areas that gets moved in the in the maps would be that downtown zone. A lot of the, the buffer zones get reduced, and then those people all need to get notified. So there’s a lot of the downtown area that’s going to get letters for that.

00:24:53,170	Um, the other the other big ones that I know she touched on a little bit was the the zones that we have on a map that aren’t actually in there anymore. Uh, the example I would give is the LSM, which is the large scale mobile home. It’s still on our map. We need to get it off. So that’s the other one. And that includes some of the mobile home parks.

00:25:11,370	So I think as soon as we get done with this section and work on some of that, that that would be staff’s goal. Uh, in I’ll just say this fall, um, it’s going to take a little bit of time to get this digested.

00:25:28,430	And I think for us, the other one that we’re excited about internally is staff is, um, some of the new just applications getting used to those, getting used to all the developers and just engineering firms on board with all of those first. And then, um, the hope is to get the the maps updated from there. So. So the process.

00:25:48,670	Would be we would approve and then the full commission, city commission approve. And then are we done or is it is there a preliminary and then a final letter. Let me know what the process is. I’m going to look to Amy, but I do believe there’s a first and second reading.

00:26:06,230	So tonight’s recommendation is approval. Approval or denial at City Commission. And then city Commission will have two um considerations of the ordinance. So then the follow up on the mapping question, does that come back to P and Z. Or is that a city commissioner. So that would follow your standard zone change process.

00:26:27,170	But I think part of the conversation is whether or not we attempt to have like a public meeting with all of those owners prior to the public hearing. Right? So get a lot of the questions out of the way.

00:26:43,700	Um, and then come to the public meeting with the public hearing with everybody informed. But that would go through the standard zone change process, coming to planning Commission and then city Commission. Any other questions? Thank you. I did have one additional question, I guess.

00:27:14,170	Just, um, can you speak to, um, if there will be grandfathering for, um, properties that, um, I guess, you know, would have been developed or constructed prior to the zoning changes and how that will be handled? Yes. Um, Commissioner. So there is, um, language on nonconforming uses, which is slightly different than grandfathering.

00:27:38,730	Um, nothing in this code would make anything that is currently legally occurring have to be removed or sunset it um, but it most of them, if there are any conflicts, it would fall under that nonconforming code.

00:28:00,100	Um, I do I will note the one comment that we have received on the zoning code and the subdivision code not related to data centers was actually a question about something permitted under an SPU, and whether or not that would change. Now, if that SPU wouldn’t be required under this new code. And the answer we’ve discussed is no, they would still fall under their SPU. And this was before the data center thing, uh, entered the picture.

00:28:26,730	But there was there was a little over 500, uh, responses during the survey. So it was a strong response. Maybe just one follow up question then on the nonconforming uses. Uh, is there a requirement, um, that where they have to become, uh, conforming if they if I recall correctly, there used to be something like if they put more than 50% improvement according to the property’s value into

00:28:53,900	it, it had to become conforming. Is that would that be the case? Yes. And that is actually, um, I’m trying to remember, but the vast majority of that language is out of state code. There were some legislative changes at the last session, and it’s pretty standardized across the state at this point.

00:29:27,000	Thank you. Uh, with that, at this time, uh, I’m going to open up for public comment here in a minute. I’d like to do it in two steps. I would like the any comments on the non data center portion of the ordinance? Um, obviously big interest to any developers.

00:29:48,330	Downtown fringe population. Um, if they’re either in the room or participating online, I would uh, at this time, I’d like to open up for public comment on on the ordinance. I’ll have you state your name for the record, please. Yes. Thank you. Uh, okay.

00:30:21,500	Good evening, Chair Robinson and commissioners, uh, I want to first thank the city. And their staff are going through this, and interstate engineering for going through this and updating the code. Um, my name is James Carroll. If I didn’t say that already, I apologize.

00:30:38,900	And I’m here tonight to discuss a few, um, concerns I have with the proposed changes, and I apologize. I didn’t attend one of the 4 to 7 meetings throughout the the way, but I guess that’s why we have a public hearing at the end. Um, the first concern I have is regarding the requirement to plant street trees every 40 linear feet.

00:30:54,370	Uh, it was not addressed tonight specifically, but it was included in the summary, um, provided by the city. Trees can be great. They can, but the roads can cause a lot of problems. Uh, for the homeowners, those can grow into sidewalks, driveways, utility lines. They require significant maintenance and cleaning up the leaves, trimming the trimming the branches.

00:31:16,170	Uh, they create site hazards on residential streets where families have children playing, and they can blow over in the wind. Uh, because we all experience that outside of aesthetics. I’m not sure why the city of Mandan is wanting to require trees planted on residential property. Trees can cause the sewer lines back it up.

00:31:35,800	They can break up the driveway, they can break up the sidewalks, destroy electrical wires. All these are currently the responsibility of the homeowner who will be responsible for trimming the trees, picking up the leaves. If a resident cannot physically do this now, they will be required to hire a contractor if the city is responsible.

00:31:52,770	Do we have the current staffing to do so, or will or were there? Will there be future requests for additional employees to trim the trees? Trees are obstructions on the boulevard. My kids are young. I want every opportunity for a car coming up the street to stop. I don’t want to require a tree to be an obstruction, cause an accident.

00:32:08,770	What happens if a tree dies in the first year? Does the homeowner need to replant it, or will it be? Will there be gaps across the development? Uh, where trees once stood? If a tree grows large and needs to be cut down, it isn’t a cheap activity.

00:32:22,970	I have two dead trees in my yard. I got a quote for cutting those down with a thousand bucks, I guess summer storm came along and blew on over or saved myself $500, but I had to go and then clean it up.

00:32:39,770	The report from Stantec talked about the need for more affordable housing and Mandan, but on all new developments, the city is going to require additional costs for aesthetics. I find it interesting that the water usage and drought tolerant species selection is discussed in the ordinance. The city is going to require more vegetation, but encourage low water, demanding plants and turf.

00:32:56,270	Don’t plant fescue because it uses too much water, but in the next breath, we’re going to be discussing the possibility of 1,000,000 square foot under roof data center. I’m sure that they will commit to low water usage.

00:33:11,300	At least there will be a type C buffer with a few extra trees to try and stop the noise, and the site of the gargantuan industrial setup. Well, most of us probably won’t be affected by the the change that we’re discussing tonight on street cheese trees, but we need to look ten, 15 or 20 years down the road.

00:33:26,230	Trees may look nice, but it should be the property owners decision if they’re going to accept the risk and responsibility of placing trees on their property. If not, is the city ready to be on the hook when these problems present themselves due to something they required? My asked tonight is that the requirements for single family homes and other similar buildings? Um, that needs to be removed with the potential for also increasing the distance

00:33:42,830	between trees for other building types. Bismarck ordinance requires trees every 100ft on multi-family buildings with more than three units, so that would be starting with a fourplex. As much as I don’t want to just copy Bismarck, the ordinance makes more sense.

00:33:58,830	Mandan needs to be focused on providing services and ensuring the safety of its residents, not overreaching and creating problems for them. The second item I want to discuss is the new annex zone. It appears to create a unique area and to close it off from non compatible zoning districts by creating a buffer. I understand this currently only applies to the refinery and I apologize.

00:34:16,970	I’m going to jump into your next section. I’m just going to go out a short section. However, we are potentially putting the cart before the horse with the upcoming data center discussion next month.

00:34:30,330	The zoning district that has the most permissive list of uses should be limited to certain locations of Mandan, and not just separated by 20 or 30ft of buffer. My concern is this does not do enough. The city needs to ensure that existing residents and business owners are not impacted by the addition of the zoning district and future potential uses.

00:34:45,230	I don’t have any specific suggestions on this section outside that it needs to be evaluated further. And let’s not put the cart before the horse. So I’ll stand for any questions. And I appreciate your time. Questions. Thank you. Thank you. Anybody else in the room want to speak on? Uh, uh, ordinance outside of data center. With non.

00:35:25,300	Do we have anybody online? I’ll give you a minute to unmute. Going twice. Third call. And that would be the extent of comments on the initial part of the ordinance. Does the city have a preference for us to further discuss the ordinance minus data center, and then move on to public comment on data center? Just move on to further discussion. Thank you.

00:36:08,530	Chair Robinson. I’ve never used this before, but I would say point of order. I need to read Robert’s Rules. But, um, are we are we discussing the land one or just the regular ordinance? Just the ordinance. Okay. Are we going to be voting two on the land one tonight, or is it just..

00:36:25,100	So we’re we’re taking comment tonight on, uh, at one point, the data center ordinance was out. There. What was the land? When the language is out there. So we’re going to land. One is the data center ordinance. Is that. No. So okay, okay. So are we doing anything with the land ordinance tonight? No, just the. Uh.

00:36:46,600	Just the subdivision ordinance. Oh, I’m sorry, just the zoning ordinance. I’m sorry. Okay, okay. Chair. Chair. Robinson. I think I just became more confused than clear.

00:37:09,600	Um, are we looking at both? Um, the new proposed chapter 101 zoning ordinance, as well as the new chapter 109 Land subdivision, neither of which contain the, uh, data center language at this point. Is that correct? That’s correct. Correct. Thank you. But we will take public comments on on the up and coming ordinance for data center. So with no further comments on the balance of the ordinance, we’ll begin on, uh, taking comments on data center.

00:37:37,130	And we do have a number of people in the room. If we can try to keep it 3 or 4 minutes at the most, please. Mine is very short. I just have, um, a request that. Excuse me, state your name. Oh, sorry. Please. Yep. My name is Sonia Sauers.

00:37:51,130	I’m a resident here in Mandan. Um, and I, uh, would like to request a moratorium, um, until the North Dakota state legislature meets, um, and can either allow for cities, townships, and counties to have stricter enforcement.

00:38:17,100	Um, if there’s $1 billion company coming in and it’s a $1,000 fine for breaking an ordinance, even if we have an ordinance, what’s the you know, it’s really difficult if we’re not able to then enforce it, um, and impose penalties. And since we have the North Dakota legislative session coming up, I am requesting a moratorium until that point. Thank you. Thank you. Next. Again, if somebody’s online, we’re taking comments on the data center ordinance.

00:39:00,870	Anybody in the room? Yes. Hello. My name is Matthew Holzhauer. I guess my main concern is, is coming with the data center, as I know it’s going to be using a lot of water to cool down the systems.

00:39:18,700	With that being said, since the data center is usually controlled by industry and industry gets tax bailouts for those systems, is my taxes and or bills for those systems going to go up for like my water and my electricity? Uh, we don’t have the rewritten ordinance in front of us yet. So, uh, that will some of that be addressed? Um, how they go about the cooling system, I don’t know.

00:39:42,000	The cooling system will be the Missouri River will be the water. How will be paid? Will be with the tax dollars and with the people’s due and whatnot. The next concern is, is the other states that have had these systems. The water comes out muddy where they’re drinking.

00:39:59,100	I don’t want to drink muddy water. We get our water from the Missouri. Where are they doing the make sure they combat that. If their systems were to muddy our water. Is that mentioned in their language or in the zoning or rules or whatever regulations they may have. To call? We’ll have that out here.

00:40:17,300	And then within the next week, um, at this point, we don’t have it out. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Sheila Mayor Froelich. Um, Mandan citizen. I just have a couple questions. Um, I forgot about the meeting. Came late, but. So I don’t know what was all covered.

00:40:47,700	But first of all, you’re not voting on the ordinance at all tonight, because that’s not even completely developed, right? Uh, you’re asking about the data center portion, correct? Yeah. No. Okay. We are we are voting on the ordinance. Uh, sections 101 and 109, less the data center section. Okay. And the ordinance are voting on its 197 page, 191. Somewhere in there, 190 some pages of new city ordinance.

00:41:17,070	Yeah. My next question is I saw that, um, and I don’t know if it comes from you or from Wharton County for sure. Um, the wastewater treatment plant, supposedly you guys are proposing a new one for 120 million.

00:41:38,930	Will that plant take out the PFAS chemicals from the proposed data center? Yeah, this commission would not qualify to answer that question. Say that again. This commission would not be qualified to answer that question. Okay. Um, is there a reason that the wastewater treatment plant is going to be redone now? Does it have anything to do with the data center? Mr. chairman, could Mr.

00:42:11,330	Neubauer answer these questions, please? Or if, uh, City Engineer. Okay. Chair Robinson and members of the commission Jim Neubauer city administrator. Um, the work at the wastewater treatment plant has been in the process for several years.

00:42:37,930	It is not related to the, um, we don’t have an application for a data center in front of us, so we can’t speak to what kind of heating and cooling system they may have or what kind of water intake, or what type of water discharge they may have, because we do not have an application for a data center in front of us.

00:42:55,230	So those questions, um, we we don’t have an application, so we can’t even begin to address them. Chair Robinson Mayor Froelich I believe the Fastnacht is also part of the existing water treatment plant solutions that we are trying to plan for in the years ahead, whether it’s five, ten, 15 years or one year.

00:43:21,730	Um, we’re able to deal with PFAS as federal regulations come out. So it’s all it’s in the discussions right now. And part of that planning process. Thank you. Back up please. Um.

00:43:52,970	So if the wastewater treatment plant is possibly going to be treating PFAS, are you also planning for us to take in water from other data centers to clean the water from the PFAS? And then before we go back to you, I is a city of Mandan planning on giving any tax breaks to data centers. Again, PNC wouldn’t, uh, we don’t have any expertise in that area. The only the only tax incentive I know is at the state level.

00:44:25,000	Okay. I can I can maybe stick my foot in my mouth a little bit. I did talk to the a couple of the potential, uh, investors that are coming. I can only tell you what they told me.

00:44:41,100	I can’t tell you how I feel about it or anything yet, because I’m still learning a lot of stuff. I can’t tell you that their promises will be valid or not, or that that there’s teeth. That’s my biggest concern, is I just want to make sure there’s teeth into whatever’s promised.

00:44:55,430	But what they did promise was that the one of the first talking points to me was that they were going to bring in $46 million in tax revenue. So I don’t think their attempt, at least in my initial meeting with them, that that was the first thing they were going to do again, until we, like they said, until we see an application, some of the stuff

00:45:11,570	we just don’t know until it’s there. But they’re they’re trying to use the tax that they’ll pay for property tax as a way to incentivize and to motivate the citizens of the town to want. This is my first inclination.

00:45:30,700	And since I’m talking anyway, regarding the cooling there, they mentioned that they’re doing a closed loop system. Again, it’s a promise. How do we know they’re going to fulfill it? That’s that’s the part that I get concerned about. I just don’t know how are they gonna how are we going to know that that’s going to be a but okay.

00:45:46,870	Just so that we don’t have any a bunch of questions and nobody answering. I just thought I’d give you guys some feedback of what I’ve been hearing. So, um, you’re saying that they’re planning on paying property taxes for who? All of Mandan. That’s. They have. They have said that that is the that is how much tax they’re going to have to pay.

00:46:05,970	So that money would be injected into the community. That’s what they’re saying. Okay. I don’t know that that satisfies everybody. As far as all the other adverse health effects that having it right on the edge of our city limits is going to cause.

00:46:33,170	So I think maybe a vote to the city, to the city citizens or I think the commission needs to do an in-depth review. The one lady that spoke just as I came in suggested a moratorium. Until we get through the legislature, I think that would be, um, not asking too much as well.

00:46:58,770	And also with this data center, the company that bought the land is being bought out by a company from Israel. Are we does the state allow foreign investors in our state such as that? I think that should be looked into. And I had one other question when you mentioned the PFAS, but now I can’t recall what that is.

00:47:25,500	So, oh, the closed loop system, that’s what it was on the closed loop system. They’re saying closed loop. But do you do realize that that water has to be drained out every once in a while, and that water will contain chemicals from the pipes, which are the PFAS chemicals? So I think that needs to be looked at.

00:47:44,200	And just saying that it’s a closed loop system does not answer. Again, for all of the repercussions that are caused by that. So I think you really need to do some in-depth research, maybe get a hold of some of these other data centers where they’re now seeing the problems and work together with them so that you know what you’re getting yourself into.

00:48:05,470	And I’m always available. Maybe other commissioners are, too. I mean, I you can talk to me after the meeting. I’ll give you my phone number, um, email, whatever. I’m always up for learning. I went to one data center meeting at the. And I saw another couple of commissioners.

00:48:21,670	Where were there at that data center meeting at the train depot. One in Bismarck, trying to hit as many things. I want to hear all the negatives. So. You know, we are. I do have a small group of people right now that we’re trying to get some pros and cons together.

00:48:37,530	We do want to speak to the commissioners. We want to speak to both city, county and some of the legislators that are on the committee and see if we can come up with whatever we need to come up with for bills to pass through the legislature system, and that has to be done before January 20th.

00:48:55,100	So, um, there is a timeline there. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, chair Robinson, I’d like to respond to the water issue, and I’ll just reference Ellendale. Currently, the water is being trucked in and offloaded into tanks.

00:49:14,500	Then it goes through a reverse osmosis system, and then it charges the system within the plant. When it does need to be changed out, it is loaded onto trucks, and it’s trucked up to Sawyer to clean harbors. And that’s an EPA approved landfill. And they treat the water, but it is not going into any municipal, uh, wastewater treatment plant.

00:49:34,070	So they do actually treat it and test it again afterwards to make sure all the chemicals are gone. It goes up to clean Harbors and Sawyer, which is an EPA landfill, and the paperwork is up there. Okay. So we need to check with the EPA to see what they’re testing for then.

00:49:54,300	Is that correct? I would say yes, but I would, you know, they handle all sorts of material up there. Yeah they do. That was a landfill that was developed during the Bakken. Yeah.

00:50:14,630	Because I also did do some reading on just I wasn’t sure about what you had just stated, but I did do some reading, like if the water is just dumped somewhere else, then when it evaporates, those chemicals are left behind. Well then when it rains, they still go into the water system and into the land. So I would like to. See the majority of. The system. Is, is is reverse osmosis water and propylene glycol.

00:50:33,400	And propylene glycol is a hydrocarbon. It’s inherently biodegradable. Now the PFAS is another issue. But their total usage, the plant in Ellendale is about 3.5 million gallons, which when you look at other industries in town, consuming water, it’s minute. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. So yes, I do have kind of an answer for that Israel thing.

00:51:08,630	The technology that we have from Israel that’s been implemented in the Texas police and in the Minneapolis police right now, is it’s a little box that is in their car. The technology behind the boxes is who here owns a cell phone. I’ll close the room.

00:51:27,430	So the point here is, is the way the box works is your phone the way it connects to a radio tower or a cell tower? The box mimics that. So now, if you were in a facility with, say, an officer who has this box in their car, you would just show up as a blimp on a dot.

00:51:44,000	That data would be held in the data center. So that’s kind of the hand in hand thing right there. They’re using special technology to track you. So if you were to have your phone, you walk past a police officer that has this box or any agency that could have this box, you are now being tracked and that data

00:51:59,830	gets sent to the center. So that’s the answer on that technology. And then back to the. So you said about the tax is coming back to the homeowner. I do believe or um, well back to the how the. Know that that would that would just become part of the city’s tax revenue.

00:52:21,200	Oh it comes passes okay. I misunderstood that there. But yeah, it’s just the answer to like what the technology is and kind of the hidden behind what’s going on there.

00:52:36,830	But back to so it’s more than likely going to come back down on the homeowners and whatnot for the cost of the water then, and the electricity and all that being used for those data centers. Electricity that they proposed. In my meeting when I spoke with them first. Again, this is what they’ve told me is not what I’m proposing.

00:52:55,530	It’s not what anything the city wants, they’re proposing what they were promising us or me in the meeting, was that they were bringing in their own energy, electrical generating power by natural gas, so they would actually, they said they said that they were going to kick some. They were going to produce enough electricity to power everything independent. And that would actually have potentially excess that would actually be sold. Back to MDU.

00:53:18,330	Okay. I follow what you’re saying now, but all right. Thank you. Chair Robinson, can I just clarify a few things? First of all, we don’t have an application for this dentistry, so we don’t know exactly what they’re going to use.

00:53:36,800	So we’re kind of hypothetically speculating, which I don’t think we should do as a planning and zoning commission. And number one, they haven’t purchased the land. They have the tent to purchase the land, potentially, but it has not been purchased by anybody. There is a there’s a letter of intent that’s been signed that they could purchase the land.

00:53:51,130	So let’s not we’re just we’re overstepping a lot of things that haven’t even happened yet. Just my my $0.02. I think a little bit is perceptions reality commissioners. And I, I think when a lot of people ask questions in the public and then there’s no answers, um, people make judgments off that.

00:54:11,770	I mean, this is the reality, right? And so I, I do agree with what you’re saying. And but for allowing the citizens to talk, I, I wouldn’t want you to go home empty handed, you know, but with the warning that they’re saying, I agree.

00:54:43,230	Anybody else questions? Comments? Um, I understand that you were saying that this is hypothetical, but you said you were having meetings with companies. Um, and so I was just curious about that. And then a follow up with the company that you had, are they portable generators then that they’re talking about? If they’re going to have independent power, you know. They would have their own generator. Yes.

00:55:00,830	And it would be a would it be considered a portable generator? I don’t I don’t know I’m sorry. Yeah. Nope. That’s okay. They just. Yeah. Um, but so if you were having meetings and you said they were promising. I had one, I had one meeting and I went and I.

00:55:14,930	And I asked to hear what they were doing just to make to get an understanding. Okay. What they were doing, where. , what they were planning to do. Yeah. What they were planning. Okay. So it’s the same company that has the intent to purchase. Okay. All right. They they said they were. Yeah.

00:55:29,130	Okay. Um, and then one other thing. If a moratorium is not issued, um, I think that reviewing the community benefit agreement and building that out would be another thing I would really like to see. So thank you. Thank you. Any other comments? Online.

00:56:01,830	And I know there’s been a lot of, uh, whether it’s Burleigh County, city of Bismarck, Morton County, there’s been a number of meetings here recently. Um, and a big part of this rewrite and making a more robust ordinance that’s coming out here shortly. It’s actually a result of those meetings and and input from yourselves.

00:56:19,500	So I’m just going to give you a pat on the back for speaking up earlier at other locations. And, and, uh, uh, we’ll have a ordinance out here, uh, by the end of the first week of August. Any other questions? With none. I’ll close public comment. We turn it back to the commission.

00:57:00,930	Any further questions on the ordinance? Um, Mr. Chairman, getting back to, uh, sections 101 and 109 that were presented with for uh, approval. Um, I would like to comment on, uh, the gentleman that brought up the trees. And that has been a lot of discussion on that. And there are pros and cons, uh, all along with that.

00:57:23,970	Um, I think that’s probably something that’s going to be ongoing. Uh, deal. That’s the city is going to have to deal with. And this code is very expansive. It’s many pages, and you have to start at some point. And, um, there’s going to be changes in amendments as we go with this process.

00:57:45,670	I mean, that’s I think that’s pretty inevitable. But, um, I think it’s time that we get the code adopted. Uh, the staff has worked years on this. Um, and it’s in the best interest of the city of Mandan that we get this code adopted.

00:58:06,570	Um, with that, I would move to recommend to the City Commission approval of the draft land use code, sections 101 and 109, in whole, as presented tonight. Motion by Commissioner Smith, second by Commissioner Renner. Motion is to recommend approval to the City Commission. Approval of the Draft Land Use Code. Sections 101 and 109, in whole, as presented.

00:58:40,730	If I could make a comment, um, I think. that there also needs to be a section on repealing and reserving section 105, because otherwise section 105 of current district regulations would still be in existence. I apologize that that wasn’t in your packet. Repeat the structure of that, please.

00:59:04,730	Yes. So the, um, if you wish to approve or recommend approval it the motion would be to recommend approval to the city Commission to, um, approve sections 101 and 109 in whole, as presented with the repeal and reserve of section 105.

00:59:36,300	With that, I would amend my motion to add to that with the repeal and reserve of section 105. And I’ll still second. Thank you again. Motion. Commissioner Smith, second, Commissioner Renner. Uh, I’ll try to, uh, exact the motion here. Uh, recommend to the City Commission approval of the draft land use code, sections 101 and 109, in whole, with repeal and reserve of section 105 as presented. Questions.

01:00:12,130	With none. Roll call. Vote, please. Commissioner Horn. Yes. Commissioner. Huber. Yes. Commissioner. Lange. Yes, Commissioner. Mudder. Mayor. Mayor Froelich. Yes. Commissioner. IntVeld. Yes. Commissioner. McLean. Yes. Commissioner. Smith. Yes. Commissioner. Hammond. Yes. Commissioner. Gardiner. Yes. Commissioner. Renner. Yes. Chair. Robinson. Yes. Motion is approved. And anything for other business. Clean. With that, I’ll entertain a motion to adjourn.

01:00:54,300	Second motion and second to adjourn. All in favor, signify by saying I. Aye. Opposed? Same sign. We are adjourned. Thank