00:00:03,170	Welcome to History Hotdish A casual conversation about the historic people and events that give Bismarck its unique flavor. History Hotdish is brought to you by the Bismarck Historical Society, a local nonprofit whose mission is to learn, preserve, and promote the history of Bismarck. Sit back, turn up the volume, and enjoy another helping of History Hotdish.

00:00:21,930	Welcome to another episode of History Hotdish. I'm your host, Kate Waldera, a member of the Bismarck Historical Society's board of directors. Today, our guest is Joyce Jefferson, a Chautauqua scholar from South Dakota. Chautauqua is a tradition of American live performance dating back to the 1870s, blending education and entertainment through first person historic portrayal.

00:00:51,970	Performers research a historical figure in depth, then bring them to life on stage, speaking in their voice, sharing their story, and engaging directly with the audience. Today we are going to talk about Sarah Campbell, a woman Joyce has researched and will be portraying in our upcoming Living History event.

00:01:14,730	Venturing with the Vanguard on September 8th at 6:30 p.m. in the National Energy Center building at Bismarck State College. Joyce, it's a pleasure to be with you today. And for our listeners, can you tell us a bit about yourself, like your educational background, professional background, and especially why you became involved in the Chautauqua movement?

00:01:42,630	Hey, it's very nice to see you and thank you for that wonderful greeting. The way that I got started just seemed to evolve. I went to the Sturgis Museum, and my husband and I were looking for evidence of ourselves, and we did not find it until we got ready to walk out of the museum.

00:02:15,070	Picture of Buffalo soldiers astride horses, and they were all dressed in white. They weren't wearing uniforms. And I thought to myself, oh my goodness, we could only be cooks. And then I came to find out that I was wrong. They were more than likely medics instead of cooks. And when we left the museum.

00:02:38,870	I said out loud, I think I spoke my future. You know, there's a lot of black history in these hills, and somebody ought to write about it. Now, I did not write about it in the way that most people write. They write books. They write articles.

00:03:02,030	I just started writing down their stories and wanting to tell them as if they were living. As a matter of fact, my byline is bringing the dead to life. Now you ask me about my history. I'm an Air Force brat, and I lived in Germany and all over the United States, and my father ended up in Hawaii, and I joined him there.

00:03:28,530	After I had been on my own for a while, and I met this man. His name was Earl Tucson, Don Juan Louverture, Jefferson, Jefferson the third. But people just call me the baby is how he introduced himself to me. And he was there. We fell in love. We came to.

00:03:58,000	South Dakota, of all places. And that's what the brochure said when we came here. And.

00:04:07,870	About the time that I was learning about South Dakota, I decided I probably needed to go to school. So it only took me 12 years to get my four year degree. And I went to Black Hills State University. Since I was an extension at an extension campus.

00:04:29,500	I had to take what they offered so I couldn't take the kinds of courses that I wanted to. So I ended up with a degree in English composition, and I don't know what I was going to do with it, but I had it. So it seemed like there were times when people had gifts for me.

00:04:57,770	They would ask me about African Americans and if I knew about African Americans, and many times I would say no. And then I would learn about the African Americans. And pretty much that is how my career began. People would ask me, do you know about I'd say, no. I go find out, and then I start telling their stories.

00:05:19,030	I went to, I didn't go to. I was invited to the museum west of us. And. The executive director at the time had a lot of artifacts about African Americans, and he wanted me to work with him.

00:05:49,530	Well, the way the he was about 60 miles away, and he wanted to me to come 3 or 4 times a week, and I couldn't see coming 3 or 4 times a week, 120 miles each time I went there. So I asked him about a grant, and he says, I don't believe in grants. And I was kind of disappointed.

00:06:12,870	But as I rode back to Rapid City, I kept saying, oh, there must be a way, there must be a way. And I engage with the Journey Museum. They worked with me because I didn't know what I was doing.

00:06:36,200	We got a team of people together, and for two years we worked on the research of all of the African Americans, and we came up with corporals, cooks and cowboys and exhibition of African Americans in the Black Hills and surrounding areas. And we had about six programs that we did, one each week. And pretty much that's how I really got into doing what I do.

00:07:05,300	As far as Chautauqua, I would say that I'm self-taught because I really haven't been to a school, even though I would love to go to the Chautauqua Institute sometime. Well, I think it's wonderful to tell these stories because they definitely need to be told otherwise.

00:07:29,800	It just disappears into history and the one and no one knows about them or really knows the true story of of what they contributed and what they did and the influences that they had, you know, in the society around them. So I'm so pleased that, you know, every group has a right to be heard and known about. And I'm so glad that you were able to do the research that you've done in and bring bring their stories to life. Thank you. Now, now.

00:07:52,800	Also known as aunt Sally, Sarah Campbell worked on the Missouri River steamboats for years until 1873, when she settled in Bismarck. Can you tell us a little more about her life and why you find her a particularly interesting figure in history? Well, Sarah Campbell, was it just a piece of history?

00:08:18,570	I think she was a part of it. And she created the history of the West. So. She.

00:08:33,870	Impressed me as someone who could make a life for herself, even through her hardships. And I imagine the thing that I like most about her is that she had a very interesting sense of humor, and she was able to work around any obstacle to her advantage,

00:09:03,300	and I tried to portray that, but that's not the kind of person I am, so it's kind of hard to bring it all sometimes. Why I became so fascinated with her. She just wasn't a black woman who happened to be there. She worked, she traveled, she earned money, she acquired property, and she made decisions.

00:09:26,930	And she just kept on moving. Yeah. She didn't let anything hinder her at all. She just did the best that she could. And sometimes it was better than the people around her who were making fun of her. Absolutely.

00:09:48,900	And what I found fascinating in Lila Morton grows book was the fact that, you know, she did this all on her own. She came on the steamboat to Bismarck. She had her few belongings, everything she owned. And she also had $1,000 that somehow she'd managed to scrape together. But when she got here, she worked hard. She was an a very astute businesswoman. She bought property.

00:10:14,000	I was just amazed at her because not only was she a woman, but she was a black woman. In a time where neither were given much credit for the work that they did and their fortitude and their strength and their character. So it was so interesting to read that chapter about her as well.

00:10:36,970	And you just basically reiterated that, that she was, that she was a force to be reckoned with. A reminder for our guests that have just joined us. You're listening to History Hotdish on Radio Access, 102.5 FM. I'm your host, Kate Waldera, and today our guest is Joyce Jefferson, a Chautauqua scholar who has studied women.

00:11:03,500	She calls She Rose, who crossed dangerous and undeveloped lands entering the Wild West with all odds stacked against them. Today we are talking about Sarah Campbell, whose story plays into the early history of Bismarck, North Dakota.

00:11:22,970	Women of and people of color have long been underrepresented. Excuse me? Underrepresented. I can't talk today either. Women and people of color have long been underrepresented in the historical record. Yet we can imagine Sarah Campbell likely face certain difficulties as a free black woman living in the rugged Dakota frontier in the 1870s.

00:11:51,400	How did she overcome the most challenging of circumstances, and how do you portray her mindset?

00:12:01,600	That's a good one. Well, she had been enslaved. She worked on steamboats, and when she came to Bismarck, she was pretty well set for life. And while she was doing was managing her life when she was in Bismarck. But then she found out that there was gold.

00:12:27,000	Well, no, she found out that General Custer had a commission to go to the Black Hills. And that was something that she was wanting to do. So I think she was just living her dreams. And I like that idea that she was at the time, at a place where she had lived, seen a lot, and she was ready for more adventure.

00:12:50,900	When she got to Bismarck. I don't know what happened to her husband, but I know that she had been widowed, and so I'm sure she didn't have any restraints as well. And she cooked and worked for men under difficult situations, and she established herself economically.

00:13:23,930	And from just those actions, you can see that she had determination, resourcefulness, independence, and she could adapt to anything. So even though she didn't leave a diary, she was written about a lot in the newspapers. However, they were written from a white.

00:13:41,300	Culture point of view. Their perspective at the time? Yeah. Yes. And when she got here, there were still people who would write about her. We saw lots of historical documents about Sarah Campbell living in the Black Hills, and with lots of interesting ways that they described her.

00:14:18,700	There was one incident that I don't portray because I have not found a very.

00:14:26,400	Don't know the word I want to say, but I it's not funny. Even though the way it was described as it was written at the time, there was a lot of humor in it. But I don't recreate that story because today it would just be absolutely disdainful, for want of a better word.

00:15:01,330	And so I'm sorry. Go ahead. That's okay. I look at her life and I see what a resilient woman she is, and I try to tray her as a woman who wouldn't take anything. But she would also give it if it was given to her in the wrong direction. Absolutely.

00:15:30,370	And what I found fascinating with her in Lila's book, too, is that the question came up. You know, she pretty much had it made. She was established in Bismarck, and the question was asked, well, why would she leave, you know, for the unknown. And it was her keen sense of adventure.

00:15:49,600	You know, she she had done what she wanted to do in Bismarck. She had basically proved herself. And now it was time for the next great adventure. And off and off she went to the Black Hills. Yes she did. I love the part where she.

00:16:10,970	Was written about in.

00:16:17,200	Exploring with Custer by Paul Horsted, and I got a sense of what she might have seen so I could embellish her story just a little. And from Lila's book I got strong facts so that I could portray them so that people would know pretty much how it was for her as she lived in the Black Hills.

00:16:46,070	I also know that the people in Galena loved her. I think she must have lived there for several years, and she cooked for people. She did the laundry. She did all of the things that she did previously, but they just loved her nonetheless. And when she passed away, they put her in that middle of Yelena.

00:17:21,000	She has one of the central.

00:17:25,470	They called it a headset. And they took maybe 2 or 3 times with her headstone, and they changed it and changed it. Now it says she banquet with the vanguard of civilization, and it has her from and two dates on it, and it is beautiful.

00:17:53,470	So that reminds me, I probably need to have some kind of showing of her life so that the audience can see it, because she's not going to talk about it. Oh, of course not. If she sounds to me like she just did what she had to do. She had a sense of adventure.

00:18:13,070	She was very sharp minded, and she lived life on her terms and did it her way. And that was definitely unheard of for for people, especially women and black women at that time. So I think I would have really have liked to have met her. She sounds so. She sounds wonderful. Me too. Wonderful. And she had a heart of gold.

00:18:40,130	There was a young man from Germany. I think his name was Anthony. Her. And he had fallen ill. Well, she brought him back to health and she adopted him. Oh my gosh. Wow. Yes. That's amazing. And she said that since he never smiled, she called him sad.

00:19:10,170	And they developed a relationship where he took care of her as she age, as she had taken care of him to bring him back to health. Oh, wow. Yeah. He reciprocated the the kindness that she had done to him. That's amazing. That is amazing. It's a wonderful story and we could honestly talk all day, I'm sure, about Sally Campbell.

00:19:33,730	And that's what she said she could talk about. Go from morning to midnight. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that was the reason she came back to the Black Hills. But it wasn't for the gold. It was for the adventure, I would imagine. And all the.

00:19:52,470	And all the people that she would meet, new people along the way and new new mountains to climb and goals to achieve. So if she's not, she sounds just delightful. And as a scholar, how do you balance the historical facts with your need to keep your performance engaging? I think I don't know if Sarah Campbell was a singer, but my mother

00:20:16,600	and my grandmother and all of my family would sing. If they were in the kitchen, they would be singing. If they had some other kind of chores to do, they would be singing. So I add my singing desires to her story so that I can keep the audience engaged.

00:20:37,270	And hopefully, since I didn't learn how to be a Chautauqua and then I invented my own way, I just have continued to do it. And it seems to interest the audiences when I have them sing well.

00:21:01,370	And I would guess that she she probably did sing when she would be working in her garden, or doing the laundry, or cooking for the people that she cooked for, you know, when she was in Bismarck and had her home where they had to pay for a meals and things like that, I would guess that she may be at least hummed a little bit in the kitchen, you know, to to kill the time, because that was well before

00:21:18,500	radio or any of that other entertaining materials. So I'm sure she's saying I would doubt it. My own mother saying when she was working in the kitchen. So my, my guess is that she did to.

00:21:41,570	And is there any other other information about Sally Campbell that we can share with our, with our audience things that we haven't already covered?

00:21:46,670	I cannot think of anything. Oh, yes. Not about Sarah. Sarah Campbell, per se, but one of my performances. I've been going to Custer State Park over the last many years, and probably not every year, but there are people who would come to the Monday night speakers talks.

00:22:24,470	And the last time that I had an engagement there, there was this woman who would move her mouth, but she wouldn't say out loud. And then. At the at the very end, I asked them, why did they come? And they said, because of you. And it was like, oh really? Oh no. Oh my goodness. So I didn't have anything else I wanted to ask them.

00:22:51,300	They didn't have anything else they wanted to ask me. And I looked at the audience and they looked at me, and we must have been there for about a good 2 or 3 minutes without any words passing between us, and it just filled my heart that they would be there so that they could learn

00:23:12,300	more about Sarah Campbell and that I could bring it to them. Absolutely. And that woman who was just mouthing the words when they started to applaud, she was sold the loudest whistle I had ever heard. Oh my gosh.

00:23:36,970	Yeah, I know people just enjoy the, you know, the re-enactors, the people that bring a historical figure to life like you're doing with Sarah Campbell. I thoroughly enjoy that because it, it just it brings history to life if it's a small part of history. It doesn't have to be a super famous figure, but just to you can read about them, you know, on the flat page.

00:24:00,100	But to watch reenactor bring that character to life, it really it really makes you understand them better. Especially when they say stay really strong in character. I try this. Yes. Well, I remember one time I went to a convention and it happened to be in Minneapolis, and it was at the time when they had the Republican convention in Minneapolis.

00:24:21,900	So it's been a long, long time ago. But they had an Abraham Lincoln reenactor, and it was so cool because I happened to have been born on his birthday. So my husband. Yep.

00:24:41,970	So I'm just I was always very fond of Abraham Lincoln, and it was so fun to watch that, you know, and it just it just is so special and it's so much more than just reading about them in a, in a book, you know, you actually see them, you know, not in the flesh per se, but you see someone that's authentically reenacting their mannerisms, their figure, their figures of speech.

00:25:02,700	And and that's why what you do is so wonderful to people, for people to especially since you'll you'll be bringing Sarah Campbell to life at the at the Chautauqua at Bismarck State College, coming in September.

00:25:16,300	To close out. The program. We would like to encourage anyone interested in learning more about Sarah Campbell to attend our upcoming Living History event, venturing with the Vanguard. It is a Chautauqua performance being held on Tuesday, September 8th at 6:30 p.m. in the National Energy Center at Bismarck State College.

00:25:41,270	The event is free to the public and funded by a North Dakota 250 grant. Full details can be found at Bismarck History.com or the study. And again, thank you so much for your time today, Joyce. It's been very fun visiting with you. Thank you. Kate, it was fun to visit with you as well.

00:26:09,430	If I may leave it on a note about Sarah Campbell. She was there. She was not on the sidelines of Western history. She was there on the Missouri River and in Bismarck on that expedition. And in the Black Hills building of life. Thank you so much. Joyce for that. And it's been a pleasure.

00:26:35,400	Thank you for listening to History Hotdish. If you like what you heard, the Bismarck Historical Society hosts programs and events throughout the year. We welcome all those with an interest in local history to join us. For more information about programs or membership, visit our website, bismarckhistory.

00:26:53,100	org or find us on Facebook You can find History Hotdish on 102.5 FM Radio Access and anywhere you find great podcasts. History Hotdish is produced by the Bismarck Historical Society in partnership with Dakota Media Access.