00:00:20,630 Good evening. Thank you all for being here. This is a great crowd. My name is Tory Jackson. I'm the president of the Bismarck Historical Society. I want to welcome you all to this special event. As many of you know, the Bismarck Historical Society puts on basically monthly programs about local history. 00:00:39,700 This one is kind of a special one that we've been working on for a long time. One of our board members, Emily Sakariassen, applied on our behalf for a grant from the state of North Dakota from the ND 250th Commission. And we had the idea of putting together a Chautauqua event, which you're going to see tonight. 00:00:59,100 We had some great partners to help us put this together, including the study Bringing Humanities to Life at BSC. Of course, our great long time partners and friends at Dakota Media Access. So we're really excited that this all came together. We're excited to have you here. 00:01:21,300 I want to thank our moderator tonight, Doctor Larry Skogen who I'm sure most of you know, he's very familiar at this particular campus, obviously having served as president from 2007 to 2020. He was a career officer in the Air Force. He's got a PhD in history. A very interesting career. 00:01:41,530 He's the author of some books, some articles on history, in particular federal Indian policy and Indian education policy. We're delighted that he agreed to be the moderator tonight. So please give him a warm welcome. 00:01:56,730 Thank you to. Good evening. You know, it's been a few years since I've been on a stage in this campus here. It's been about. Yeah, six years since I retired. So. But it's wonderful to be here. And it's wonderful to see such an audience here. 00:02:16,700 So tonight we're going to experience history through Chautauqua, a style of performance that brings historical figures to life through first person interpretation, grounded in careful scholarship rather than simply hearing about the past. We have the opportunity to meet remarkable individuals whose lives helped shape the American West and the Northern Plains. Tonight's first. Tonight's first performer is Marvin Jefferson. I need to tell you, both of our performers are Jefferson's. 00:02:46,300 They're not related. I thought we were dealing with a couple, and we got on zoom and found out that they met each other over zoom. Well, we had our first meeting. So tonight's first performer is Marvin Jefferson, a nationally recognized Chautauqua scholar and living history performer. Through careful historical research and compelling first person interpretation. 00:03:11,070 He brings York to life, inviting audiences to explore the experiences of one of the most significant and often overlooked members of the Lewis and Clark Expedition. York was the enslaved servant of William Clark and an essential member of the Corps of Discovery. His story offers a powerful perspective on exploration, freedom, and the complexities of early American West. 00:03:42,570 And with the Missouri right behind us here, it's a rare opportunity to hear from York alongside the river that he traveled. So our setting tonight, it is 1822. We are at a tavern in Kentucky, and after a hard day of work, York comes in with a bottle of drink, wearing clothes he wore on the great expedition. 00:04:14,530 Why? Well, let's listen in. 00:04:34,930 I have a story to tell. 00:04:40,070 You've never heard anything like it. I've been to this tavern many times. Many times, and I. 00:04:54,700 Enjoy coming here. 00:05:01,530 Tell you a story. My story. To set the record straight. You see, I see the stairs. You're wondering why. Whether you clothe you. Come, I come here. Well, I'll tell you. No, no, I don't need for anyone to buy me a drink. I have my own. I'm a free man. I pay my own way. 00:05:28,730 I enjoy coming to taverns like this one, and having a drink of spirits and maybe telling you a story. My story? You see, when I wear these clothes, it reminds me of a glorious time. A time of bravery. Especially mine. A time of bitter winters, raging storms. Buffalo is far the I can see. 00:06:00,930 Sickness, intense fear, death, defying courage. And maybe for me most of all, a time of freedom. My name is York. I was Captain William Clark, slave and body servant. My job was to serve and protect him. Well, you know, you're wondering, how can I boat the Powderly having been another man's property. 00:06:25,530 Let me say that my experiences on the expedition made me freer than most of you. But before I had those experiences, I lived my early life as a slave. My father. Old York was body servant to Master John Clark. William Clark. Father. My father groomed me to be a body servant when I was quite young. 00:06:50,270 I don't know my exact age than I now. I'd never taught to read or write. You see, when I became a body servant, I grew up in the household. I wore the Clark clothes. I ate the clock food. I learned to talk. And the clerks did. 00:07:10,830 You see? I was set on many errands with Captain Clark throughout the years, and I believe the Clark family wanted others to see that I was well groomed and well spoken. Not enough for them to teach me how to read or write, mind you, but well groomed and well-spoken just the same. 00:07:27,600 The other members of my family my mother, Rose, my sister and brother, Nancy and Juba, and the other colored people on the Clark plantation, the other enslaved people, they were quite proud when I became a member, when I became a body servant, the Captain Clark, Captain Clark and I, we grew up together and played together with children. 00:07:48,500 But when I became a body servant, I knew what was required of me, and I did my job expertly. And it was because of that I was made a member of the great expedition. The Clark family moved from Virginia to Kentucky the same year. I became a body servant. Believe that was 1784. 00:08:08,100 We built a new home, a plantation called Mulberry Hill, and everybody was involved in the building of this new home, a slave especially so. And even though I had my new duties at Captain Clark Body Servant, those duties were cut short because of all of the cutting down of trees and lifting of law and plowing up of the ground. 00:08:26,370 I also learned to use a rifle quite well during the time. Yes, I know a slave having or using a gun against the law, but when you move to a place where the Indians are angry because they don't want you on the land land they live in, hunt on, survival is all that matters. 00:08:48,600 I believe Matthew John Clark got permission for me to use a gun to hunt for food and to protect Mulberry Hill from the savages. Yes. At that time, I was told. And I believed that the Indian was a savage. But all that would change. And as you listen to my story, you will know why. Big medicine. 00:09:15,700 Many times when we encountered Indians on our way to the Pacific, that what they called me big medicine. You see, many Indians had not seen a man of my color before. And when they saw me, they saw a leader, the bravest, the most courageous of them all. 00:09:35,870 Someone who could cut down a tree, rattle a bear, kill a buffalo with one arm tied behind my back. 00:09:42,000 And when the men of the expedition needed to eat, I was among those who went out to hunt to bring back buffalo, deer, elk, fish roots. I was loyal to Captain Clark. I did my job well, and because of that, he set me free. 00:10:04,000 I know some of you may have heard that Captain Clark freed me soon after the expedition ended, but this was not true. It was. Captain Clark freed me many years after the expedition ended. And in between that time, I felt I was betrayed by Captain Clark. I was beaten by Captain Clark, jailed by Captain Clark, hired out to a slave master who cared absolutely nothing for my well-being by Captain Clark. 00:10:34,630 And most painful of all, because Captain Clark refused to purchase my wife, I lost contact with my dear wife, who I've not seen since. Yes, Captain Clark did free me, but how empty that freedom became for me. If I could live my life over, I would be born a free man. But I would keep some things. 00:11:04,930 Some things in this life I would keep. It was harvest time. The year was 1803, and Captain Meriwether Lewis and Captain William Clark met at the falls of the Ohio River in Louisville, Kentucky. Captain Clark brought me and seven other men. Captain Lewis brought 11 men with him, and we made our way down the Ohio River. 00:11:28,830 Picking up more minutes, we went along. We made our way to the Mississippi River and sailed into Indiana Territory, where we built Camp Wood. Now, being a servant of Captain Clark, I would not. 00:11:49,500 I never worked with only white men, but there I was, chopping down trees and lifting logs and plowing up the ground, not having the time to fulfill my duties as his body servant. But he didn't seem to mind as long as I did what was required of me. Not every man on the expedition could swim. I could, and that helped a great deal. 00:12:08,230 When I had to go into the river to get green for eating and when I'll kill, both became stuck on the river bottom, and we had to jump into the water to get, you know, push or pull the boat. Captain Clark knew that I could do the job required of me. I was big medicine for him as well. 00:12:26,830 Sometimes the men would engage in amusements and merrymaking, dancing, and I would join them. I know that men felt rather strange with me, a man of color being among them. 00:12:46,430 But I began to feel more and more that I would part of the group, and we went through all of those things, be they joyful or painful, as we did many times with sickness and body fatigue, we went through it all together. Now, there was one thing I would happy to not go through with them, and that was the constant beatings and flogging that took place in the early part of the expedition to keep things in order. This was a military operation, after all. 00:13:08,430 Now, being a slave, I know what it is to be beaten. I'd have to do with our relationship with our masters. But these beatings were almost as bad. Almost. I think of survival again when one had to survive. No one is fed punishment. Something else. 00:13:29,730 Oftentimes I was I went to hunt either with a group or by myself. I don't know how the men felt about me. A man of color carrying a gun. No one ever said anything. But I think of survival again. 00:13:51,170 When one needs to eat and one is hungry, how often do we concern ourselves with who get the food? It was in the next year, the hot months 1804. That's when Sergeant Charles Floyd died. I tended to him principally helping him as best as I could. He was one of our group, and I was saddened that at death, I was also concerned if Sergeant Floyd could die, so could any one of us. 00:14:20,300 I became very, very protective of Captain Clark. I would have given my life for him. It was because of him that I was on this great adventure. 00:14:30,570 I just don't understand why. He wouldn't allow me to live out my life with my wife. You see, prior to the expedition, I grew to love an enslaved woman from a neighboring plantation. Her name was Hattie. I grew to love her, and she grew to love me. And I asked Captain Clark for permission to marry her. 00:14:59,000 And he consented. And we married right on the clock plantation. 00:15:04,500 And not too long after, I was chosen to be a member of the expedition. And never did I once say to anyone how I missed my wife. I did ask Captain Clark for permission to send her a gift, and I sent her an Indian buffalo robe. But that was all. When I think of what I lost. 00:15:27,400 Sometimes I wish I was not a member of the expedition. I would have been content working in the fields as hard as that was. If I could live out my life with her. 00:15:44,430 Forgive me, I digress. 00:15:54,600 Let me tell you about our encounters with the Indians on our journey to the Pacific. Now, as we made our way up the Missouri River, we encountered the old toes and the the Missouri and the Omaha Indians. And they were very kind to us. 00:16:13,030 But as we kept making our way up that river, we encountered two nations of soon now, the First Nation, the Yankton. Soon they were very feared, but they treated us rather kindly. But they told us about the Teton Sioux, who they didn't like or trust us very much, and we in turn did not like or trust them. We gave gifts, trinkets to all the Indians that we met. 00:16:36,330 But the Tetons weren't interested in gifts and trinkets. They wanted gunpowder, ammunition, whiskey. It started off kindly enough. We allowed them to come and look at our boats. But one of their chiefs, his name was the Partizan. He felt himself it because he felt he didn't get enough. And so he began to act like he would drunk. 00:17:01,200 And he bumped into Captain Clark that fought Captain Clark to draw his sword and motioned for us to get our guns at the ready. They had their bulls and arrows knocked back as well as their guns. 00:17:19,770 The expedition could have ended right there with most, if not all of us being killed, but finally a very wide chief by the name of Black Buffalo. He calmed the situation and he invited the captains and us to come to the village. Well, the captain consented, but the captain told her to make sure we had our guns at the ready, just in case. So we stayed with the Tetons. 00:17:41,200 We dined, they danced, and we stayed with them for four days and four nights. Captain Clark said he didn't get any sleep during that time. Neither did I. And on the day we were to leave, the Tetons again, grabbed onto our boats, refusing to let them go. 00:18:03,530 And after much back and forth, after much bad humor, we were able to sail away. We kept making our way up that Missouri River and came to a camp with the, the, the, the the error carriers were. Never in all my days had I forgotten this moment. They they they looked at me and were astonished. 00:18:35,470 They carried around me, looking at me, touching me to see if I were real. The women were very kind and sought to offer all types of favors. They did so with the other men as well, and the children. A children's followed me everywhere I went, so I decided to play a little joke on them. With Captain Clark permission. 00:19:00,330 I told them that I was a wild, people eating animal who just loved to eat small children, and I chased after them. Captain Clark felt I had taken the joke too far. I guess he wanted the Rekha to see me as being well groomed and well-spoken just the same, because he said that I was big medicine. 00:19:27,370 And when I came to understand that, that meant that to them, my presence was special. And they were not the only Indians who felt this way. And all my time, I never forgot this moment. Big medicine. 00:19:46,870 When we kept making our way up the Missouri River and we came to a camp, the ice and snow got so bad we had to stop and make a camp where the man dance were all the man dance like this. If we could stay. 00:20:05,030 We built Fort Mandan, where we stayed for the winter, and the Mandan again would look at me with astonishment to see if I were real. Now the Mandan didn't live next to the Hidatsa, and there was a Hidatsa chief. His name was a Lebanese, or one I, and he simply could not believe that there was a man of my color living next to the Mandan. So he decided to come down and see for himself. 00:20:28,530 Well, he came down and gave me the once over, looked me over from top to toe. And then he did something strange, which I never forgot. He spit on his fingers and began doing this. Now, I don't know how you feel about it, but I felt kind of strange to be up with someone spit, I suppose. 00:20:54,070 He wanted to see if the color would rub off, and when it didn't, he and the Mandan called me great medicine. They felt that my skin had some kind of sacred power. 00:21:14,300 Being a slave, having seen your people looked down upon and treated with scorn, you can't imagine how it felt to be seen by a whole nation of people especially. And great. There were times where I felt as if I were a giant. Well, the cold weather put an end to all those feelings. 00:21:33,070 However, it was so cold that the surface of the river flows into solid ice, so solid that heard the buffalo were able to run across it without the surface breaking. And it was in that cold that we had to hunt. We had to hunt buffalo. And parts of my body froze during that hunt. Parts of my body which I don't care to talk about in mixed company. 00:21:51,170 There were many traders and trappers who came to the fort during the time, and one of them was a man by the name of Tucson Charbonneau, and he had two Indian girls, his wives, one whose name should be known to everyone here Sacajawea to Shoni, Indian girl. Now, Charbonneau had a very strange way about him. 00:22:13,770 He thought he was going to come in and tell the captain what he was going to do and how he was going to do it. But when the captain said, we don't need your services, goodbye. He changed his tune and he was hired as an interpreter. But it would really suck at the way of who had the real gift. 00:22:30,430 Both she and I were servants, but I began to believe that if it weren't for us, the expedition would have been much less successful, especially without big medicine. 00:22:46,230 Let me tell you about our travel around the Great Falls and through the Bitterroot Mountains. But we had never seen sites like this before. These mountains were large and the water was wide and turbulent. And when I saw this, I knew it was going to be difficult. 00:23:09,770 Very difficult for me, because not only did I have to carry my belongings, I had to carry Captain Clark belongings as well. Well, we began to make our way around the Great Falls. We were told that it would be a short portage, but it became a very long one. Oh, we were soaked by rain. 00:23:29,530 Burnt by sun, bitten by all types of insects, threatened by snakes. Not to mention our fearful encounters with the grizzly bear. My wife and I were very dear friends during this time. Now, one day myself, Captain Clark Charbonneau, and her little baby, whose name was John Baptist. But we called him Little Pompey. 00:24:02,370 We were searching along the the waves, looking for things that had been lost. And Captain Clark had recommended that I go hunting for buffalo to bring back to the camp, which I did. But as I started hunting, this guy's got very dark, and all of the sudden I would be set by a terrible storm. 00:24:23,330 And I went running back looking for Captain Clark, and the members of our group couldn't find them. I went up hills and into valleys, couldn't find them anywhere, and I became very agitated. You see, my job with. To serve and protect Captain Clark. 00:24:38,830 If I couldn't find him, if something happened to him, then what would happen to me? What would happen to my family? 00:24:44,770 I did find them. Captain Clark had rescued them from a ravine which had filled up with water. They almost drowned. And I was very, very relieved. And Captain Clark reminded me that I had spirits in my canteen so that we could drink to keep ourselves warm, to wait the storm out. 00:25:03,770 You know, just thinking about this make me want to. 00:25:09,400 Oh, we were so tired. We were exhausted after our travel around the Great Falls. But then we saw mountains twice as large. Captain Lewis felt if we could not find a Shoshone nation or some other Indians to provide us with horses, the expedition would be in peril. 00:25:37,800 We weren't sure where we were going there with very little game to hunt, but Sacajawea began to recognize and remember where she was, and this helped us out. So we decided to split up. The captain decided to split up, and of course, I went with Captain Clark. We went with us. Captain Lewis took his men. Now they were looking for Shoshone. 00:25:59,700 All of us were. We didn't find any Shoshone, but Captain Lewis did. He came across a Shoshone warrior. As soon as that warrior saw him, he took on his horse and rode off. Then he found a group of women who immediately bowed their head, thinking that they were going to be either killed or captured. 00:26:23,300 But Captain Clark made sure that he came in peace. He gave them gifts and painted their faces red to make sure that they knew, and so they guided him to the Shoshone village. Now, I don't know what happened from that point, up until the point that I actually entered the Shoshone village. But I do know this. 00:26:46,670 As soon as I did enter, a whole group of Shoshone names gathered around me. Some had dirt and had some spit on their fingers, and they began this. It looked as if I were to be big medicine all over again, being rubbed with dirt and spit. 00:27:09,300 Captain never told me, but I knew. I knew that it was my presence that helped the captains in their dealing with the Indians. I knew well. We had to barter for some horses. And so this is how it went. Now we would translate Shoshone to Mandan. 00:27:35,200 Charbonneau would translate Mandan to French, Labiche would translate French to English and back again. This is how it went. It was very, very tiresome. But something miraculous happened during these negotiations. All of the sudden, Sacajawea started crying. We had no idea why. Suddenly she got up and took a blanket and wrapped it around the shoulders of the Shoshone chief. 00:28:05,930 As we come to find out, the Shoshone chief was her long lost brother. We were amazed at this, and we called the space where it happened camp fortunate because we were very fortunate to have her along with us. 00:28:27,030 Well, we got our horses and the Shoshone let us a guide, whom we called Old Toby, and we began to make our way up and through the Bitterroot Mountains. Now some members of the expedition rode horses. I was among those who had to walk, but my feet became so sore that eventually they allowed me to ride a horse. 00:28:46,770 But it was very difficult because the horses were going up these mountains, which were caked with ice and snow. Some of the horses stumbled, some of them fell. Some of them we had to butcher to eat, to keep from starving. The cold and hunger were very bad. 00:29:05,500 We came to a clearing where we encountered a group of Indian called the Flathead Indians, and they gave us roots and berries, and they felt that I were the bravest, the most courageous member of the group because of my skin color. And that was very heartening to me, because it helped me to overcome the blinding snow and the soaking rain and the bitter cold and the constant gnawing hunger. 00:29:26,400 We had to eat candles and drink bare fat to keep from starving. Finally, when we came through these mountains, we encountered a group of Indian called the Nez Perce. Now this is what I heard. The next person at first wanted to kill all of us, but there were two things that prevented them from doing it. 00:29:53,100 One was an old woman who said that she had grown up with the whites, and she would treat it very kindly. So don't you hurt these strangers. And the second was their fear of what I would do because of my skin color. 00:30:13,070 They felt that I would somehow, if they attacked the members of the expedition, that I would do something to enact revenge. And so they decided not to do it. I don't know what happened, but they seemed very pleased to have rubbed the rubbed my city. The color didn't rub off as they desperately tried to do. 00:30:31,400 When they didn't, they called me Black Indian. They considered me one of them. 00:30:49,670 When we arrived to the Pacific, our joy was great and. 00:31:05,430 Not yet. We were happy to travel on a river again. We were so happy to be sailing, even though we were hurting and saw. And we had to travel fast because we wanted to reach the Pacific before winter came upon us. 00:31:28,230 So we were moving so quickly that many folks thought we would smash our boats against the rocks. In fact, they were Indians standing along the banks of the river waiting for us to do just that. But when we had to stop to exchange goods for food or to camp overnight, the Indians again would marvel at me. 00:31:50,570 What a wonderful group of people. I thought to see something special in me that only my family and the members, the colored members of the plantation, would see. I thought about what it would be like to live with the Indians. It is the thought that I still carry with me today. 00:32:11,130 I know some of you may still see the Indian as a savage, but when I look at the Indian today. I see family. Family? Well, when we arrived at the Pacific, our joy was great and short lived. Oh my goodness, we were so much rain. It was not enough to put a tent, but not enough to protect us. 00:32:41,070 So we had to build a fort. And this is when I knew that I was truly a member of the great expedition. The captains allowed a vote for where the fort would be, and I along the way, were included in the vote. 00:33:05,470 We built Fort Clatsop, and we were pleased that the building of the fort was over, but that ended because of the constant leaking and the fleas and the the spoiled meat and fish. We were miserable. I was very ill at were other members of the expedition, but I still had to fulfill my duty to Captain Clark, body servant, and my duties as a member of the expedition as well. 00:33:27,600 So that means we had to hunt. Now, the main meat that was in this area was elk. Now, elk is a good meat, but elk in the morning, elk in the evening, dried, boiled, smoked. No salt. 00:33:50,430 A squirrel every now and then, some birds, some fowl, but mainly poor elk. I and the other members of the expedition were miserable. But finally our mission was over. It was time to head home. Heading home was difficult, but not as difficult as it was heading to the Pacific. 00:34:19,800 There were many things I remember on our journey home. I remember my sadness as seeing the Indians along the banks of the river because they were starving. I remember us having to exchange goods for the only meat we could find. Dogs don't recoil. 00:34:46,470 They were quite tasty, I remember us having two for the first time, having to retreat our steps because we found out the snow was very, very deep and we didn't have a guide to lead us through those Bitterroot Mountains. And so we had to retreat for the first time and wait. 00:35:10,370 I remember being given the responsibility of trading our trinket for much needed food with the Nez Perce, and I did very well. I remember my joy at seeing the. Arikara and Mandan that we made our way back. I remember traders and trappers looking at us with astonishment because they thought all of us were dead. But finally we arrived in Saint Louis. We arrived home. People, white people, looked at me with partiality and respect. 00:35:43,170 When I started going to the taverns of Saint Louis and regaling the tavern members like I'm doing you now of my adventure during the expedition, it was a great time. We made our way to Louisville, Kentucky, my home, and I saw my mother, my father of my sister, my brother. 00:36:08,700 I saw my wife and I was so happy to have seen her. It's been so long, it's been so long. And I kept them up late into the night telling them of my adventures. But we had to keep going. We had to go to Washington, D.C.. To meet with President Jefferson and Captain Clark. Captain Lewis, other members of the expedition. 00:36:32,400 Some Indians came along as well, and they were treated like the hero they were. 00:36:45,630 I knew I wasn't going to receive any land or money for my services, but I hoped that I would receive my freedom. And most importantly, or as importantly, to be able to live out my life with my wife. And I knew that Captain Clinton knew how important my wife was to me. Or so I thought. 00:37:10,000 Both Captain Clark and Captain Lewis were given positions of power because of the work they had done during the expedition. I believe Captain Clark was made a general of some sort, but that means he had to move to Saint Louis. Permanently. And because I was his body servant. I had to go with him. 00:37:37,300 At first, I had Captain Clark. Is it possible that I could be freed? I didn't receive any land of money, and I did my job as well as anybody else. He said no. 00:38:05,000 I said, well, is it possible that my wife can be purchased so she can come along with us to Saint Louis? Said, no. 00:38:10,770 Is it possible that I can be where I can work in Louisville, Kentucky? And that's the clerks are still there. And so I would still be working for you. 00:38:28,600 Oh. Could I be hired out? And whatever I earn, I would send it back to you. 00:38:44,070 You say that is not possible, that I am serviceable to him and him alone, and that I am not to speak of this again. 00:39:00,230 I've known Payne as a slave. You. You know what pain is. But I've never known the pain of saying goodbye to someone who you love dearly, who you may never see again. I wouldn't wish that pain on anyone. And so. I went to Saint Louis. 00:39:35,530 And after a while Captain Clark said, well, I have some errands for you to run in Louisville, Kentucky, and you can spend a little time with your wife. I went to Louisville, Kentucky, and I stayed much longer, much bunker. 00:40:02,970 And when I came back, I know he was very angry, and I asked him again to sell me or hire me out to someone in Kentucky so I can be with my wife. He felt I was being insolent and soaking, and he beat me severely. He had me jailed at one point in time. He didn't realize that the pain of not being with my wife was greater than all of this. 00:40:28,670 Finally, he decided to hire me out to a master in Kentucky, a master young. At first I was quite pleased. But this man, he hired me out to CAD. Absolutely nothing for my well-being. I never thought that Captain Clark would hire me out to a severe master. Someone who had me barely clothed, if at all. Bad food, extreme overwork. Constant floggings. 00:41:00,170 I had to appeal to a member of Captain Clark family. I meant to, oh, felon, asking him to speak on my behalf. Now, I understand that Captain Clark may have been angry at how I've been acting, but the loyalty that I've given to him over the years did not deserving of the treatment, not from 00:41:22,800 one who's always been fair and not to one who's always been loyal. 00:41:34,800 Well, he finally decided to release me from this hell. 00:41:42,430 And some time after the year 1811 came about. And the reason why I remember that year so vividly, because that was the year that my wife's owner moved to Mississippi. And of course, he took her along with him. 00:42:08,100 I never saw her again. 00:42:20,430 Time passed. Time passed. Finally, I believe in 1815 to 1816, Captain Clark decided to free me. Oh, he gave me a wagon, six horses, a business. But being this free man of color now, I can't be with my own people because that sin is something dangerous. The whites have nothing but contempt for me. 00:42:58,500 Because I cannot read or write. Two of the horses died and I've been cheated. 00:43:08,700 Being a slave, being a body servant does not train you well for the business of freedom, 00:43:23,230 but being a member of that expedition. Made me know what freedom felt like. It made me know what freedom meant. It made me know that I'm just as much of a man as Captain Clark. Then I'm just at deserving of a family as he. 00:43:49,870 It let me know that my skin color, my blackness is seen by some not as a curse, 00:43:56,830 but as a blessing. 00:44:02,430 Does anyone know where the Indians that I mentioned where they may be now? Some of them may have been displaced. I'm not sure. I have this idea of going back to the West and living with my friends, those who respected me. Who knows, maybe in my travels. I may come across my wife. 00:44:43,000 My friends. A toast to the great expedition, to the men of the expedition, to the beauty and majesty of this great nation, to the Indians that I met in my travels, who treated me with respect and in some cases looked at me with all. 00:45:18,830 To the colored members of the plantation, to my mother, my father, my sister, my brother, 00:45:25,070 to my wife. Know that I love you. Know that I do not forget you. And know that we will see one another again in this life or the next. Two big medicine. 00:46:07,470 Thank you. York. 00:46:18,500 Thank you. 00:46:26,630 We've got time for one question, for York, one question. Does anybody have a question that you're just burning to ask York? Mr. Jefferson will be coming back up on the stage later, and you can talk to him as Mr. Jefferson here in a bit. 00:46:47,800 But does anybody have a question for you all here? We've got one question for York. Did you ever go back and live with some of the Indians then towards the end of your life? Well, it's something I thought about. I who knows what may happen? I don't know, I don't know, I not as of yet. No, but who knows? Who knows? Thank you. York. Thank you. 00:47:17,770 We're going to take about a five minute break. So if everybody can be back about 722, and then we'll have our next performance. 00:47:28,500 So our next performer is Joyce Jefferson, another nationally recognized Chautauqua scholar and living history performer. Through extensive historical research and first person interpretation. She brings Sarah Campbell to life, offering audiences a unique perspective on the American frontier. 00:47:58,270 Known to many as Aunt Sally, Sarah Campbell left her life as a steamboat cook on the Missouri River in favor of opening a boarding house and a laundry business in the fledgling town of Bismarck. In 1873, her time as one of Bismarck's earliest female entrepreneurs would be brief, as she soon seized on an opportunity to travel with George Armstrong Custer. In 1874, Black Hills Expedition, and later became associated with the Custer Mining Company. 00:48:28,170 Her story sheds light on the challenges and opportunities of frontier life, and the often overlooked contributions of African Americans in the American West. As with York, this is a rare opportunity to hear from Sarah Campbell, who worked for the soldiers at nearby Fort Abraham Lincoln. 00:49:01,700 Please join me in welcoming Joyc Oh, that was a river. It's bringing me home. The Missouri River brought soldiers and settlers and freighters. And today it's bringing me home. Oh, Shannon. And. Oh, I long to hear you. I way you. Rolling river. Oh. Shannon does. I long to hear you. 00:49:53,370 Way cross the Mersey. 00:50:02,530 You got you, I got you. All God's true and got you. When I get to heaven. Going to put on my shoes I'm gonna walk all over. God said heaven. Heaven. Everybody talking about him make go in there. Heaven, heaven. I'm going to walk all over God. Ten. Howdy. 00:50:40,700 How y'all doing? Oh, that is so good to hear. Welcome to the Kona territory. 00:50:48,700 I won't have to know that I was the first white woman to see these here black hills. 00:50:59,670 You hear me now? My name is Sarah Campbell, but everybody called me Aunt Sally, and I don't understand why y'all laughing when I tells you I, as a first white woman to see these here black hills, you laugh again. Well, let me tell you something. I've been up and down the Missouri ever since. Its muddy waters was broke by steamboat. 00:51:27,930 I accumulated quite a little property in Bismarck, and I lived the life of ease in luxury. Money didn't. Don't bring this taillight here. I tells you that. Now, this ain't no common Negro. Now, I tell you folks, I just got done working for money. I have not hear me. 00:51:51,930 If it hadn't been for that Custer who don't fetched us to this black hills, I'd still be up in Bismarck enjoying that ease and luxury. 00:52:08,170 Now, I did want to see the Black Hills, but they ain't no blacker than I is now. Not truly enough. When we was coming down from Abraham Lincoln and we cast our eyes on them. They're black hills. Well, sometimes the way the sun listen off the needles, they truly did look black. And I wanted to see these here black hills for myself. 00:52:33,430 And they ain't no blacker than I is. And I'm no African. Now you just bet I ain't. I'm none of your common heard. Now hear me. You wouldn't touch this here gal totin Chuck. Working hard. Just living that life of ease and luxury. 00:53:04,870 Now, I don't know if you know this, but they got lost that say, if you got one drop, just one trump of black blood that makes you black. Well, I want you to know that I got 2 or 3 drops of white blood. 00:53:29,870 Now, don't that make me white? That's right. God did not make black blood. God did not make white blood. All he made was blood, and it runs red. Now, when you cut yourself, you see red blood, don't you? When I cut myself, I see red blood. So that tells me that we is all the same. 00:54:04,400 Don't that make you think that I was just as civilized as you? Is everybody talking about it? May go in there. And I'm going to walk all over for God help me. Now, I was hankering to see them there, black Hills, when I found out that General Custard and got a commission to survey the Black Hills. 00:54:35,700 And I just knew that I could be his cook. 00:54:41,170 But I found out on this expedition he'd done already had a cook. Johnson. Nancy Mux Johnson. But I want you to know that the Lord is always going to make a way out of no way. He found a way for Sally to go on this expedition. Now, Captain Smith, new general in the world of free the slaves. 00:55:09,600 And he was just like that. Two peas in a pod. So since they went back so far. General Custer hired on Captain Smith. He was the sutler, and he had ten teamsters, and he needed a cook. And there I was ready to cook for Captain John Smith, his ten Teamsters and myself. 00:55:43,500 And my day. It was always pretty, like all I had to do was make box lunches for the ten Teamsters and Captain Smith and fixed a breakfast. And then the rest of the day was mine, and I could go anywhere I wanted to go. Well. I want you to know that God made the place so beautiful. 00:56:17,700 There were days when all I had to do was just look up around me and say, Ain't God good? Now they are troopers. They was 1000 troopers, just about as many hoaxes, 100 Indian scouts. 00:56:50,100 Very important people like scientist, geologist and a couple of near dwell newspaper reporters and a whole lot of people who was just like me, wanting to find new adventures in a little bit of gold. Well. The truth was, they was looking at all that God had created the most beautiful flowers. And I want you to know that the the grass, it grew up all the way to the horses bellies. 00:57:23,470 And there they were riding along them troopers, and they started picking in the platinum and picking in the platinum and picking in the platinum. And by the time they finished picking in the platinum and picking in the platinum. They had wreaths for their houses. Now, there was not going to be outdone. 00:57:45,700 They was picking in the platinum, picking in the platinum one more time. And they made. Nose gates for the helmet. They did. Now, while we were out there, I got a lot of respect for General Custer, but do you know what he did when he was in Kentucky? He come up with this here, I did that. 00:58:16,100 All of the hostess and company a well, they was going to be white. And then all of the hostess in company B, they might be brown. All the hostess and company C well, they might be wrong. 00:58:42,800 And you know why he did that? So that he would know what company was doing what and which ones that he could turn and give rewards to, and which ones that needed the little bump to get a little bit better. Now we come all the way from Fort Abraham Lincoln by the way of Bell, the Bell Foose River there. And. 00:59:06,470 We got down to French Creek. And do you know what we found there? We found gold. Yes we did. And? There was about 20 of us. And we made the Custer Park Mine and Company, and we talked about how we was going to operate. Well, I told you there was this narrative. 00:59:40,530 Will newspaper writers there? Well, when we formed the Custer Park Mining Company, everybody had a claim there was discovery. And that was Captain Horatio. 00:59:59,870 Land and gold and everything else that was there. And then there was eight above discovery, and then there was 12 below discovery, and mine was seven below discovery. Now them newspaper writers. There was writing about everything, including who had the goal. 01:00:38,000 Now there was this one who wrote for the Chicago Interruption, and he wrote down everybody's name and everything was fine. I was the only woman there who had a claim. Now there was this other newspaper man. Did not like him. Where? Seven below. Discovery was was his name. There were no women on his list. Now they could take my gold claim away. But they could not take Aunt Sally out the Black Hills. 01:01:12,130 I told you, I love general custom now. He loved music. Yes. You know, I told you about company A, they was a band. They played morning, noon and Night and General Custer. Well, he just let them play to their wits end. They played music to wake us up. They played music to put us to bed. 01:01:45,700 Now General Custis favorite tune was Garryowen. Y'all know Garryowen, don't you. Yes and no. Okay. I will tell you. 01:02:04,670 La da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da. Oh. Sometimes I get carried away. 01:02:13,900 Oh I'm still carried away. Dada da da da. 01:02:28,470 But his favorite song he said was this one. 01:02:40,370 Me play. And proud as though we may. 01:02:53,330 Be. It is so hard. There's no place like home. Oh, home sweet home. There is no. 01:03:21,700 General Custer. Say home is where the heart is. And no matter where you go. You always got your home in your heart. And that's my sentiment just as well. Home. 01:03:54,930 I lived in Kentucky. And I was supposed to be free. 01:04:04,400 I was supposed to have been born free because my mother's master said that when he died and his wife got full use of us, then we would have our freedom. I wasn't even born yet. And my mama was supposed to have her freedom. 01:04:30,430 And the master died. And then his wife did not have use for us. So she loaned us to. Like I said, I was not even born yet to her niece. Now her niece. She got so sick, she died. And there my mama was taken care of. All those children and my my mama's master's wife's nephew. 01:05:12,230 Well, he fell on hard times as well. And after the mistress, she died. 01:05:22,800 Well, my mama was supposed to have already been free. And there I was. I, I was about 11 or so when my mama, she died, and she had told me all the time that I was supposed to be free. Well, there I was, working on the steamboat, and I told my story every day. 01:06:01,770 There was this here, Mr. Willie, and I told my story to him, and he said that he would take my story to court and see if he could get my freedom. Well, he went to Saint Louis and he went to the court. By this time I had been sold. 01:06:34,000 I had been rented, but now I was sold to Mr. Schachter. Oh, he was a fur trader. And he was so me. So men. And there are times when he would hit little Sally. And I just try to stay out of his way so he wouldn't have to hit me. Now, Mr. Willie, he went to the coat. 01:06:57,370 He told him that I was supposed to be free, and he won $500 for my freedom. He did. But Mr. Shakhtar, he hold on like a bulldog and he took me to coat again. 01:07:23,400 And the judge said he didn't bring nothing new. 01:07:29,670 But he still give Mr. Shakhtar. His $500 back. 01:07:43,400 And I got a penny and my freedom. So I know that I am free. You don't have to tell me. I know it here in my heart. Didn't my Lord deliver Daniel to live a ten year deliver? Daniel? Didn't my Lord deliver Daniel? Then why not deliver every man? 01:08:18,500 Every man, every woman, every boy and every girl? Oh. I'm sorry. Sometimes I get real sorrowful. But y'all want to know about what happened on the expedition, don't you? General Costa love to hunt. He did. He had 40 hounds out there on there on that day. 01:08:58,430 And he took one of the ambulances, and he gutted it all out and filled it with straw. So them 40 hounds would not have to walk on the ground, but could ride on the straw. 01:09:15,270 Well them troopers, well they found out about General Custer and they started making fun of him. They started singing. General Costa had a horn and bingo was his name ‘o B-I-N-G-O! B-I- Y'all don't know this song. I usually have people sing along with me. Would you like to sing along with me. 01:09:42,800 General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name. ‘O B-I-N-G-O! B-I-N-G-O! B-I-N-G-O and Bingo was his name. Oh. General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name O. There's there's no B there. There's there's not the B, not the B. Okay. General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name. Oh, I y'all ain't clapping. 01:10:22,600 Well, there he is. They clapping now. Y'all supposed to clap along with the. I think. Oh, General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name. 01:10:56,830 Oh, I-N-G-O! I-N-G-O! I-N-G-O and bingo was his name of General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name o N-G-O! N-G-O! N-G-O! and bingo was his name O General Custer had a hound and bingo was his name. Oh, G-O! G-O! G-O! And bingo was his name O. General Custer had a hound, and bingo was his name O! O! O! And being a was his name O General Custer had a hound, and bingo was his name. 01:11:33,570 And bingo was his name O. Thank you. That was fun. Well, I told you he'd love to hunt. And. When we was out there. 01:11:53,730 Then there. Troopers, they started singing again. Hunting. We will go a hunting. We will go. Yeah. The dairy, a hunting. We will go. Hunting. We will go a hunting. We will go. We'll catch up pig and dance a little jig and then we'll let him go. Hunting. We will go a hunting. We will go. We'll catch it. 01:12:29,900 No no no no no no no. General Costa would not cut that bears hair. He did not. Do you know why it was a grizzly? Yes, Lord. It was a grizzly. And he wanted to get the first shot. I told you he wanted to be a good. He thought he was a good huntsman. 01:13:00,770 Well he shot at that grizzly I think he missed. So Colonel Ludlow was out there. And he shot. And I think the bear must have been about six feet tall. Now when General Custer shot at him, he just kept on walking. Captain, I get them, their ranks mixed up every now and then. 01:13:31,970 Colonel Ludlow, he got a shot in, and I think it hit him in the leg, but all the grizzly did would stand up and keep on walking. It was a good thing. Oh, bloody knife was out there because he struck that grizzly in the jugular and made sure he was dead. Now, General Custer, he was a very generous man. 01:14:02,470 Once that grizzly was all dressed. He sent liberal pieces to all the messages, and he sent them to me as well. Now, since I didn't have much to do, this here grizzly was a challenge for me because the Teamsters, they did not want to eat that grizzly. It was tough. The grizzly was old. 01:14:36,270 He must have been about eight feet tall. He was long in the toughest. And his claws? Well, I got my share of venison, and I cooked it the first day, and. Them their teamsters did not like it. 01:15:06,230 And when I went out that day, I noticed that there was little pieces of innocent all over the place. But I was not going to be outdone. I was going to cook the venison so that they would like it. 01:15:29,100 So I got that grizzly venison, and I, I pounded it, I put salt on it, and I let it sit for a while. Well. They didn't like that one either. So I got my own ain't Sally and I pounded it. I put salt on it. I soaked it for a while, and then I buried it. 01:15:57,330 And I know when we come back I could dig it up, cook it, and it would be tender and sweet. But when we came back, I never did find that grizzly. I think they went hunting. They went. They shot the grizzly. Put him out of his misery to the message. The grizzly. He went so. 01:16:33,570 I know that this is the most beautiful place that I have ever been. And I'm going to go back to them there, Black Hills, just as soon as anybody. But I've told you about them there do. 01:16:54,970 Well, newspaper writers, the Chicago Inter Ocean. Somebody had to read this to me. 01:17:04,800 And I did not appreciate it at all. I memorized this. The most lively contestant was Sarah Campbell. Aunt Sally, a huge mountain of dusky flesh. I did not laugh. That was not funny to me. I made good money. I took good care of people. And I also had my fun. 01:17:42,270 And he's going to call me a huge mountain of dusky flesh. Well, I did cook good, and I like what I eat. Made it a little bit too much, but that was my right. 01:18:05,130 So I just want to tell you that God is good. He made each one of us just like the other. We is all made in his image. So when you look in the mirror, you see God. When I look in the mirror, I see my sisters and my brothers. 01:18:32,330 And everybody that God has made. 01:18:39,170 You got to. I got you. All got to and got you. 01:18:51,870 When I give to him. Gonna put on my shoes I'm gonna walk all over God. Ever. 01:19:27,370 Thank you. 01:19:34,400 Thank you so much. The last time I got a standing ovation, only one person stood. So it really makes me feel good to see all of you stand. And to conclude my program. Oh, the one question to you. Oh, no. We can do the one question. Okay. 01:19:59,500 Does anybody have a question for Aunt Sally? We've got a question back here. First of all, thank you for your story. I really appreciate. I think I speak for all of us. What? I say that I really appreciated it. I was just curious. It seems like music and participating. And it seems really important. And. And to you and your story, I was curious. 01:20:18,970 Was that shared with the rest of your crew? Did you also sing along with them? And you try the b I NGO thing with them, and they do as bad as we did. That question is not a question for Aunt Sally, and I have to apologize to you. 01:20:36,900 I made that all up only because she was not written about, other than being a huge mountain of dusky flesh. She was remembered all through the Black Hills for many of the things that she did, but they were not the kinds of things that people wrote about. I used the music because I like music. I don't know if she liked music. 01:20:56,130 Like, I like music, but I know she loved to parade. And every time she. There was a parade in Deadwood. She got up inside that grade. Bego. Where do you get those things? Wagons? Yes. There. Wagons. And she put her hefty, dusky flesh and waved to everybody every time there was a parade. 01:21:24,870 So I know that she's the kind of person who like to have a good time. More than likely love to tell a good joke. And she probably navigate it very well during that time. For an African American woman. 01:21:53,930 So that means that I already broke character, right? So the last thing I want to leave you with is the Sierra Campbell method of losing 100 pounds in less than a minute. If I can get out of this thing here. Could you help me, please? This is Bell Crow, and it looks like I don't know where it is. and so now we. 01:22:22,430 Because the two of them are here tonight, we're now going to have a very special presentation. And Joyce is going to tell you about it. It's a poem, and Marvin is going to help in character again as York. And I'm talking real slowly here. 01:22:48,500 Oh, goodness. Since you're standing here and there are all these people here, so they can't say anything nutty about what's happening. 01:23:03,530 Could you untie my fat suit, please? Oh, yeah. One of them broke. Just tear it. Okay. Come over here. Oh, yeah. Yeah. 01:23:20,770 Okay, now I'm turning it over to you. Joyce. You're going to explain what's going to happen next? Yes. Two years ago, I went to a South Dakota arts conference. And Doctor Craig Howe had a project that he wanted to endeavor, and he wanted to have an exhibit of music, literature and art all together. 01:23:54,630 And it started with where the Lewis and Clark Exhibition expedition started in what's now the Black Hills on September 23rd, 1804. 01:24:13,600 And I am sometimes a poet, and I want it to have my voice heard, because I did not think Yorke's voice could have been heard. So I wrote a poem according to Doctor Howe's guidelines. We were supposed to use one segment of that particular day and write about it from a perspective. 01:24:49,870 I call it. Oh, wait a minute. You like this? I love this. Right. There it is. Yeah. York stripes. Yeah. Yeah. There was a man named Porter Williams who was a sculptor. That's right. And he sculpted Yorke's stripes. And I asked him if I could use his sculpture so that I could write my poem. 01:25:16,970 And he allowed me to do that. I don't remember the exact day, but it was May of 2025 when he passed away, and I had the pleasure of knowing Porter Williams. And I was inspired by his work. And this poem was written because of him. Doctor. How and so forth. 01:25:53,230 Yorke's stripes, 23rd September Sunday clerk A days and nights equal set out early under a gentle breeze from the southeast. Captain Lewis went out to hunt on the island. A great number of buffalo in sight. I must seal up these scripts and draw from my journal at some other time. 23rd of September. Sunday. 01:26:27,500 Not like any other day. Matthew Clerk A write the facts quickly. I laugh days and nights equal. A first for me. Born a slave. Yet on this journey I am free. I am day, I am night I am equal. I vote with the others. They carry no burdens. No wives infiltrate their lives. 01:26:57,270 Yet I carry dreams of the love of my life. To return to Kentucky. Free to unite with my wife. I make decisions. I even carry a gun. A man am I? No. Slave clerk. Be. We observed a great smoke to the southwest, which is an Indian signal of their having discovered us. 01:27:30,800 The river's wide, straight, and contains a great number of sandbars. Matthew Clark, be the new corps of Discovery. Our mission to gather new lands. To greet western tribes with guns and knives in our hands. We come in peace to take on and Tétouan tribes with a simple declaration. They are now part of these United States. Good. 01:28:01,530 They see us before we see them. Clark. See? Three Sue boys came to us. They swam the river and informed that the band of Sioux, called the Teton of 80 lodges, were camped at the next creek above, and 60 lodges more a short distance above. 01:28:28,830 We gave those boys two carats of tobacco to carry with their chiefs, with directions to tell them that we would speak to them tomorrow. Captain Lewis walked on the shore this evening. Reuben Fields killed a doe goat. Math. De Klerk. Sea. Days and nights. Three Sue boys. They came to see. They came to tell. They looked at me curiously. I connect with them. But the clerk, he speaks. 01:28:58,700 Tell them we come in peace. Tell them we speak on the morrow. On this journey I am free. I am day. I am night. I am equal. Will my equality prevail? Will my dreams ring true? Make my own decisions. This decision I cannot make rain free after this. So join or remain enslaved and forlorn. And. That's beautiful. 01:29:39,630 Thank you. Thank you very, very much. How special that is. Joyce wrote the poem. We had York to read it for us. I would say the first time in history this has happened. That is. Okay. So now we have questions for the scholars. 01:30:03,800 And so if anybody has a question they want to ask Joyce or Marvin about the deciding the roles that they took or anything else. Anything comes to mind. If not, I'll come up with a question. But anybody have a question? Yeah. Here we go. 01:30:23,430 This question is for Marvin. How old were you when you first learned about the Lewis and Clark expedition and about York? Oh, I heard about the Lewis and Clark expedition when I was in high school. But, you know, it wasn't. It was one of those passing moments. 01:30:44,700 You know, when they talk about the great events in American history. I didn't really get in depth into the Lewis and Clark Expedition until 2012, when I would commission to do York with the Ohio Council. And that's when I really started investigating and looking at what they did and how amazing it was, and York's life within that. 01:31:07,300 So, yeah, I would say officially 2012 is when I started. Yeah. 01:31:15,500 Joyce, how about you? Same. Same question. When did you hear about Aunt Sally and decide you wanted to do this? Oh, I thought they wanted to know how old I was when I. Okay. How old were you? No, no no no, you do not ask a southern lady her age. My husband and I had been in Hawaii. 01:31:38,270 He he we met there. We got married there, and I stayed there for three years. He stayed there for five. And the the military said you've been there too long. So they sent us to South Dakota. Of all places. I'm glad they did not want to send us to. Why not? My not. 01:32:04,930 So when we got here to the Midwest, I had no concept of anything. My husband loved history, so we went to museums to find evidence of Buffalo soldiers, African Americans, people who looked like us. We walked through one museum and we just knew the Buffalo Soldiers were there, and we didn't see anything until we got ready to leave through the gift shop. 01:32:32,630 And there was this huge panoramic picture of for African Americans astride horses wearing white. And I looked at them, and in my ignorance, I said, we can only be cooks. 01:33:03,500 And then come to find out they were actually a medical detachment, and more than likely they were going out to, take care of people who had been attacked by the cooks recipes. So when we left there, I did not realize I was speaking my future. I said, you know, there's a lot of black history in these hills and somebody ought to write about them. 01:33:30,100 I did not write per se a book, an article, but every time I turned around, someone had something to give to me so that I could add to a story, the story, and be able to tell about the African American experience in the Black Hills. 01:33:46,070 I went to one of the museums in Spearfish, and I met with a man who said, you know, we've got a lot of black artifacts here, a lot of history. 01:34:11,670 And I would like for you to come to work with me 3 or 4 times a week and 3 or 4 times a week, writing 60 miles one way and then 60 miles back. I mean, gas was not $4 a gallon then, but I was thinking, you know, that's quite a bit for me to volunteer. So I asked about a grant. You know, I was willing to work with him. He said, I don't believe in grants. 01:34:32,870 So on my way back. And that just goes back to Aunt Sally saying God makes a way out of no way. I wrote back, I said, there's got to be a way, there's got to be a way. And when I got back to Rapid City, I met with the executive director of the Journey Museum. 01:34:51,030 This was 1998. I'm telling my age. And she said, why don't we have an exhibition in 2000? So portions of the exhibition are back there with Jerry. Okay. And it was called corporals, Cooks and Cowboys because the corporals or the military came. 01:35:17,370 The African Americans could probably never be more than an enlisted person, never a general like Custer. And the cooks had to come along with them so they could eat and survive. And the cowboys came later. So we did an exhibition in 2000, and I'm still carrying the pieces with me whenever I have an opportunity, because this is probably not something many people know about. Definitely. 01:35:52,000 Okay. Any more questions for them? Do we know? Since Aunt Sally was in this area, did she stay in this area then? Oh, when I get to talking, I forget so much. Yes, she stayed here probably from the early 1870s to 1874, when she went on the expedition with General Custer. When he passed away, there were no. 01:36:33,270 Nicely put. There was no reason for her to stay here. She had the claim down in the Black Hills, and she just decided that she would go and join the people with the illegal gold rush. 01:36:50,530 But she owned property here. She owned property in the Black Hills, and she had quite a few claims when she was in the Black Hills and she had ways of working that would include the community. There was a mess dinner and there were several people that she received $5 a week from. 01:37:15,170 And she would cook for them and that guaranteed her an income. And she had one plot where she had a garden, another plot where she, did other things, and then she had her place where she, fed her people. Yeah. Another question here. 01:37:41,370 Do do either of you know for sure if York was the first recorded African American this far into the West came. He may have been the first recorded. I do believe there was someone else, prior to him, but, York may have been the first recorded per se, of African American to go to the West. Yeah. I've got a question. 01:38:07,870 Marvin, you said that you've done this in Ohio and other places like that. Joyce, have you done the Aunt Sally Chautauqua thing outside of the Dakotas? And how do people react to it in other places? 01:38:21,530 No, I have not gone many other places with my first person narratives. However, I work with two other women and we have been, regional through South Dakota. We went to Albuquerque, where we were keynotes for the National Association for interpretation, and we went to the eastern seaboard, to York, Pennsylvania and some other places. 01:38:54,670 And I think the furthest west we went was to Missoula. Oh, okay. Wow. 01:39:07,570 And the furthest north is, I guess it was around here. I think it was at Mandan. Jerry. 01:39:20,200 Where did we go to do the coda? Daughters in North Dakota? United tribes. So it's up the street from here. 01:39:29,430 Oh, sorry, I have a question. What is your process or what was your process for this? Getting into character and sharing the story of, Aunt Sally and York? Was there a specific process? Is there always a process for this? 01:39:49,100 You want to go first? Oh, yeah. For me, the first process of reading, you know, reading as much as you possibly can. I consider Chautauqua to be like, historical detectives. You know, we're constantly looking and searching for information, and we calibrate, you know, our performance by the information, new information that we may get. 01:40:23,070 First is reading, and then it is crafting a monologue. For me, I always, for the most part, take it from an important moment or a pivotal moment in that person's life. And so I take it from there. And then I go back and then it, you know, brings me back to that, that pivotal moment. 01:40:45,730 York is a little bit different because we don't really know what happened to him after 1816. You know, there are two, what two versions documented of what might have happened in York. First version was, Washington Irving went to interview William Clark and you know, in Irving. Actor. 01:41:20,000 What about your manservant York? And he said, well, you know, I gave my freedom. I gave him some horses, a business. He was lazy. He was cheating. He he he fed. He fed IL and something. York said something to the effect of. Damn that freedom. I've never had a happy moment since I've gotten it. 01:41:44,670 And York was supposedly on his way back to William Clark when he contracted cholera. And he died. Now, that may have happened, but keep in mind, William Clark was a slave owner, and slave owners really believed that black people didn't want to be free. And so who knows how much ego and stuff went into that particular explanation? Nothing had been cooperated, we don't know. 01:42:10,130 Second thing is, a mountain man by the name of Zenith Leonard. And these things both took place in 1832. That interview with Washington Irving and this genus, Leonard Wood, traveling the Rockies. And he encountered a group of Crow Indians. And so he went to the village, and he saw this black man there. 01:42:32,800 And they went to talk to the black man. And a black man said that he was, you know, he first came to the country with Lewis and Clark. So was he York? We don't know. The thing about that is that there were a number of mountain men in the area. 01:42:54,600 And, you know, somebody could have said that because claiming that, you know, you were part of the expedition was a thing of pride and all that stuff. But we don't know because nothing cooperated. So somebody had stated, well, you get a chance to pick which ending of life. Do you want York to have? I know the ending I would like them to have. 01:43:14,900 He part of the Crow Indian Village. He has about four wives. He's a respected member of the community. I like that. I don't like to know about him. You know, coming back and dying of cholera and all that stuff. Trying to get back to Clark. So I don't know. No one knows, you know. Yeah. 01:43:38,830 Since my characters and I use that term very loosely because they are people to me, had very little voice. 01:43:50,470 I take what I find, whether it's in newspapers or what other people have written. And I put my voice to it so that it's more amenable. And possible. And I put the facts with the fun. 01:44:18,030 Okay. I think we're going to have to wrap it up here tonight. First I want to say as a historian myself that I really appreciate what the two of you do in exposing the rest of us to a history that's just not common to us. 01:44:40,130 And so thank you very much for your contribution to history in this country. We want to thank Joyce and Marvin Jefferson both very much for being here with us. The Bismarck Historical Society, The Study Bringing Humanities to Life at Bismarck State College and the North Dakota 250 Community Initiatives grants for making tonight possible. 01:45:04,030 And thank you to all of you for showing up and having such an extraordinary evening with us. Thank you very much. Thank you. 01:45:16,900 Oh no no no no no no no no no no. 01:45:24,570 Emily, this is my fault. Joyce said she's got a presentation to make at the end, and I said, okay, we'll do that right at the end. And I was supposed to say that I apologize, so don't run off yet. Joyce has some presentation she wants to make. Emily. 01:45:48,470 Thank you for finding me, because I did not think that Sarah Campbell could come up here and tell her story. looking at the Missouri River and meeting York. I mean, it's a whole. How many years? Wow. Yeah, we were probably a century apart. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I get to meet him, and I have this. You're welcome. 01:46:15,630 And I need you to open it up because I'm really proud of what I did. 01:46:22,600 And then I have this for Larry. Yes. You gave us conversation. 01:46:36,830 Do I have to open it here. Yes, please. But they're all the same. They just say different words on your thank yous and. 01:46:47,900 So I'm going to read this one because it's not wrapped up for Marvin Jefferson who gives his voice to York. Oh thank you. Thank you Marvin, for bringing New York to life. Your voice gives breath, strength and humanity to a man whose story has two often been overlooked. 01:47:15,030 You step into your shoes with dignity, depth and heart, reminding of us of his courage, his complexity, and his enduring peace in American history. Thank you. Through your voice. York speaks and people listen. You help keep history, his story alive and moving forward. Oh. Thank you. Oh. 01:47:44,630 Thank you, thank you, thank you. And if the shirt is not the right size, we've got more. Very nice. Yeah. This is so. He gets to look like me. 01:48:03,800 You're welcome. Thank you very.